*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[alex_123_fra]

They could only do their own validations with the A0 IMC, which was defective.

As a few here may know (very very few) I have a friend with a Zen ES. I asked him for advice about what memory I should buy for it - and he said he only tested it with DDR4-3200 CL16 and nothing higher.

He still refused to tell me anything worthwhile, but this, at least, is relevant. Until finding this argument, I thought it was common knowledge that Zen is using RAMBUS's DDR4 logic which should, in theory, be every bit as good as Intel... though lacking in real-world maturity for higher frequencies (hence the teething issues).

DDR4-3200 should be a total non-issue and I've already bought mine.

Does your friend's name begin with "8" and end in "k" ?

 

[Martini1991]

Have a watch

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5o87m8/ryzen_imc_officially_supports_ddr43200_via_amp

Oh dear

Isn't this an opinion piece?

Again, I have no problem believing Zen can run higher memory, but opinion pieces aren't going to do that.
Thus far we've had a single image from a motherboard vendor which backed up SS's claim.

Thus far there's been nothing solid to contradict that.

Although I'd be astounded if 3200 was *official* support.

 

[Martini1991]

Now i see why this is so important to you.

Memory speed or bandwidth is not the be all and end all of IPC, its just so happens that Zen is getting the same performance, or higher performance in the case of Handbreak as the 6900K with slower memory and only dual channel because the rest of the architecture is good enough to do that with less memory specification than the 6900K has.

You miss-trust or are confusion about that is because you think understand what you clearly don't, or you believe the straws you are clutching at a bit too much.

That isn't half some spin.

That's what this thread is isn't it? It's not about real discussion, it's about circle jerking to AMD.

Anything "negative" will be refuted with nothing but ones own faith.
And anything positive is the law.

I'll try something.

Based on the features AMD announced for Zen performance wise, does anyone think that Zen may have inconsistent overall performance app to app?

 

[Caracus2k]

Now i see why this is so important to you.

Memory speed or bandwidth is not the be all and end all of IPC, its just so happens that Zen is getting the same performance, or higher performance in the case of Handbreak as the 6900K with slower memory and only dual channel because the rest of the architecture is good enough to do that with less memory specification than the 6900K has.

You miss-trust or are confusion about that is because you think understand what you clearly don't, or you believe the straws you are clutching at a bit too much.

So far we have seen a very limited demo from AMD previewing ryzen performance in a scenario that doesn't help us much with the final performance especially overclocked for the chip. (with a fairly low capped chip clock below the intel chips stock performance). Other than that it's mostly been extrapolation and or conjecture about ryzen.

I see as much 'straw clutching' from the people that seem to think that ryzen will mark the arrival of a wonder chip as I do with others who are looking at where the platform may not be so strong against intel's offerings.

I doubt the memory situation will affect most consumers who don't need more than dual channel memory and who won't miss having the ability to run modules as fast as intel's current consumer line allows... However it may be a weakness in the am4/ryzen platform compared to the intel entusiast line and it is AMD that have decided to compare, presumably their best upcoming chip, against the entusiast line say over a 6700k

 

[Silent_Scone]

Isn't this an opinion piece?

Again, I have no problem believing Zen can run higher memory, but opinion pieces aren't going to do that.
Thus far we've had a single image from a motherboard vendor which backed up SS's claim.

Thus far there's been nothing solid to contradict that.

Although I'd be astounded if 3200 was *official* support.

Hey, I could still be wrong. However lets think this through.

We have another party saying speeds above 2400Mhz were conditional, that is to say they weren't stable on stepping found last year.

Unofficially up to 4000Mhz, is a far cry from 2666Mhz suggested on MSI specs. So much so in fact, that you'd have to be fairly uninformed to not find that unlikely. Vendors tend to state the maximum operating speed that can be achieved unconditionally. That means without error, speeds above this may be possible if you want to push things for benchmarking.

You'd like to think Ryzen's IMC has the upper hand thanks to running less channels. This lets you run much lower latency, and speeds generally. (Unless it really is weak as suggested)

I'm happy to hold my hand up if I'm wrong, it's not about that. Guns at the ready lol.

 

[Martini1991]

It could even be the case that the information you had was right at the time, that's now not the case.

And Harlequin "rebuttal" backed it up with that article he linked to.

There's since been another unconfirmed post which stipulated as much.

But that's objectivity, going on what's there.
Instead we've just got rebuttal born from fanboyism.

 

[Silent_Scone]

The truth is, AMP support could mean anything. AMP is effectively nothing more than Intel's XMP. It's a profile on table that's an extension of JEDEC that sets primary timings voltages among other things, but that's by the by.

In contrast, you've got XMP support for DDR4 kits up to 3600Mhz which are, according to memory vendors, qualified for X99.

Probably less than 5% of CPU can run those kits unconditionally, and those that can will require excessive amounts of voltage lol.

So the proof will be in the pudding. As much fun as it is being on the windup, we need to see users with AM4 CPU passing HCI mem test at 3200Mhz. If that happens, then that's good news. That's me being objective, I still don't think it will happen.

Also see people on the reddit link being thankful they bought 3200 kits. Which is fairly laughable, because if they're qualified for Intel's platform they're not likely going to get them working at those speeds regardless lol. This is going to be a common troubleshooting phenomenon now that AMD have made the leap.

 

[Apache14]

I see as much 'straw clutching' from the people that seem to think that ryzen will mark the arrival of a wonder chip as I do with others who are looking at where the platform may not be so strong against intel's offerings.

This all depends on the pricing, ryzen in its current configuration wont be a "wonder" chip and be able to take on all of intel's offerings. If it targets i3-i7 consumer models (non X) it has the downfall of not offering any integrated graphics. And due to the platform limitations it will not be as solid overall to the Intel X lineup (looking at quad channel memory ect). I still think price wise the top ryzen will sit between the 7700K and the top intel "X" platform chips.

Personally I don't think AMD need a wonder chip (however nice that would be), they just need something that can get close enough to current Intel chips so they can compete in the same ballpark again. This will improve further with the zen based APU's in the 2nd half of the year (i think that's when those parts should supposedly be available)

 

[xs2man]

This all depends on the pricing, ryzen in its current configuration wont be a "wonder" chip and be able to take on all of intel's offerings. If it targets i3-i7 consumer models (non X) it has the downfall of not offering any integrated graphics. And due to the platform limitations it will not be as solid overall to the Intel X lineup (looking at quad channel memory ect). I still think price wise the top ryzen will sit between the 7700K and the top intel "X" platform chips.

Personally I don't think AMD need a wonder chip (however nice that would be), they just need something that can get close enough to current Intel chips so they can compete in the same ballpark again. This will improve further with the zen based APU's in the 2nd half of the year (i think that's when those parts should supposedly be available)

The integrated graphics is a good point. I don't game on my PC, ever. I'm not into spending more than the cost of a current gen console to play the same games. So my last few builds haven't had the need for a dedicated video card.

Now I've been waiting on Ryzen for my next build. But the cost of the CPU will now have to be even cheaper, as I'll need to factor in the cost of a GPU to run my screens. Granted, I won't need anything high end, or new. I need 1 HDMI and 2 VGA or DVI outputs to run my 3 screen I currently have. But either way, it's still an extra expense. Probably in the £40-50 range second hand.

I was gonna go for an i5, but thought I'd wait and see if AMD put out a 4c/8T for the same price. But even if they do, I'll still have a GPU cost on top. Unless I change my plans and continue to run my 4770k as my daily PC, and run the Zen as my "NAS". In fact, I may well do that.

 

[Harlequin]

Bristol ridge AM4 APU will be excavator based - Zen based wont be till 2nd part of the year

 

[xs2man]

Yes I know. I'm not sure I want to wait that long to put my build together though, despite it probably being worth doing so.

I did consider buying another Haswell or Haswell refresh CPU as I have almost all the components here already apart from the cpu (spare motherboard & RAM, along with cooler and case and stuff). But I cannot bring myself to spend as much on a second hand CPU today as I did nearly 2 years ago on a new one. On the other hand, my 4770k is worth almost as much as I paid for it still. But that is the result of a weaker pound meaning a newer chip is substantially more, rather than stronger residuals.

 

[Harlequin]

1 potential advantage though - is ti get the first run AM4 apu now , then upgrade the cpu later

 

[d_brennen]

1 potential advantage though - is ti get the first run AM4 apu now , then upgrade the cpu later

Buy cheap, buy twice. What's the "advantage"?

 

[Harlequin]

that he can get DDR4 now , then upgrade to a zen apu later and resell the excavator one?

I would have suggested broadwell - but they are rare as hens teeth with the iris pro now

 

[Caracus2k]

Have a watch

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/5o87m8/ryzen_imc_officially_supports_ddr43200_via_amp

Oh dear

Total fluff opinon piece based on another dubious source (3200 'official' support 4000Mhz via oc) vs manufactures advertising (2666Mhz 'oc')

Yep you have totally failed to convince me with that!

Very unlikely AMD will 'officially' support 3200Mhz. Far more likely the 'official' speed will be something more like 2400Mhz (or less?) with some boards advertising an oc speed above this...(say like 2666Mhz??)

 

[ubersonic]

...

 

[FlanK3r]

My memories....



Im ready for Ryzen and you?

 

[humbug]

Now there is a real PC Hardware enthusiast ^^^^

 

[Silent_Scone]

Now there is a real PC Hardware enthusiast ^^^^

lol, let me just crackout my i7 T-Shirt and lounge pants

 

[SiDeards73]

My memories....



Im ready for Ryzen and you?

FlanK3r i know your a man in the know, no spoilers, but is Zen going to be worth the wait? you do reviews for Czech Hardware sites if im correct? you must have some knowledge of how Zen is shaping up i bet you have probably even had a play with Zen outside of CES!

In your professional opinion, do we have a contender? not asking for NDA breaks or nada hell you can even be cryptic in your answer haha