*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[Armageus]

Right - last warning - any more bickering and people start getting banned.

I suggest you take a break from this thread, chill out, and come back where there is something of substance worth discussing

 

[~>Dg<~]

so most likely we will see newer revisions like on phenoms previously. c2 , c3 and the like.as they improve.

 

[Silent_Scone]

so most likely we will see newer revisions like on phenoms previously. c2 , c3 and the like.as they improve.

Yes most likely, but that's not what we're seeing here so close to launch.

Take Asrock and MSI for example. Both vendors are giving memory speeds in the region of 2666+

Originally what I had heard, and there is an article posted previously that backs this up, is that Zen was struggling to net anything past 2400, even 2666 speeds weren't fit for much more than frequency verification shots.

The speeds I'm hearing now are substantially higher than this, but

Here's the possibilities;

1) AMD have since released new microcode which helps with memory stability
2) Some vendors are still in a state of flux and much further behind the others
3)These speeds aren't actually validated yet, and in terms of stability are still very conditional

It's good news whichever way you look at it. Simply being able to POST at 3600Mhz for instance at this early stage in the platforms life is promising, albeit with two channels less than X99 which does makes things a lot easier at a component level.

 

[SiDeards73]

so most likely we will see newer revisions like on phenoms previously. c2 , c3 and the like.as they improve.

Yeah this makes me think waiting might be the better option, if AMD say that Zen is CPU arch that is going to span 4 iterations or years or whatever, if they release say 8/16a then later that year 8/16b and finally 8/16c before the newer version of 8/16a lands the following year or so, might be worth waiting for the final iteration each cycle?

As silicon and process improves we will probably see better chips during each cycle right? like less leakage so better OC ability at lesser voltage etc? so final revision each arch should be the best of that edition?

 

[SiDeards73]

Yes most likely, but that's not what we're seeing here so close to launch.

Take Asrock and MSI for example. Both vendors are giving memory speeds in the region of 2666+

Originally what I had heard, and there is an article posted previously that backs this up, is that Zen was struggling to net anything past 2400, even 2666 speeds weren't fit for much more than frequency verification shots.

The speeds I'm hearing now are substantially higher than this, but

Here's the possibilities;

1) AMD have since released new microcode which helps with memory stability
2) Some vendors are still in a state of flux and much further behind the others
3)These speeds aren't actually validated yet, and in terms of stability are still very conditional

It's good news whichever way you look at it. Simply being able to POST at 3600Mhz for instance at this early stage in the platforms life is promising, albeit with two channels less than X99 which does makes things a lot easier at a component level.

So by validated you mean signed off officially by AMD? so they can give an AMP profile in the mobo bios etc?

 

[Silent_Scone]

So by validated you mean signed off officially by AMD? so they can give an AMP profile in the mobo bios etc?

No more so the memory and motherboard vendors. For instance if the kits not able to pass memory stress tests at that frequency no matter how much voltage you throw at it on any or hardly any CPU sample, it's not really a viable frequency.

If you take the CES MSI boards as an example. 2666+ implies that, at that point in time at least, no higher speed kits have been validated for that board. Keeping in mind the Titanium-X is their flagship product.

 

[humbug]

Yes most likely, but that's not what we're seeing here so close to launch.

Take Asrock and MSI for example. Both vendors are giving memory speeds in the region of 2666+

Originally what I had heard, and there is an article posted previously that backs this up, is that Zen was struggling to net anything past 2400, even 2666 speeds weren't fit for much more than frequency verification shots.

The speeds I'm hearing now are substantially higher than this, but

Here's the possibilities;

1) AMD have since released new microcode which helps with memory stability
2) Some vendors are still in a state of flux and much further behind the others
3)These speeds aren't actually validated yet, and in terms of stability are still very conditional

It's good news whichever way you look at it. Simply being able to POST at 3600Mhz for instance at this early stage in the platforms life is promising, albeit with two channels less than X99 which does makes things a lot easier at a component level.

Its idiotic to affirm predictions based on constantly eveloving unfinished test samples.

Remember these are test or engendering samples, unfinished CPU's, what their VID and clockes are during these various demo's was always different, first we knew of it the 8 core was running 2.8Ghz, as a result of that people started going off on a hyperbolic tangent that 'Zen doesn't clock high enough', that was a premature assertion as the next time it was 3Ghz, then 3.15Ghz, then 3.4Ghz and the last one, revision F4 3.6Ghz..... well no surprise a CPU that was still undergoing fine tuning improved over time, derp.

The fact is all we know is what we know at the time in an ever evolving situation, there are several claims made that looked foolish at the time and have been proven to be exactly that.

For now lets just be very much aware that Zen is not ready to be released yet, they will continue tweaking right up until the day before release in 6 weeks.

 

[DragonQ]

As silicon and process improves we will probably see better chips during each cycle right? like less leakage so better OC ability at lesser voltage etc? so final revision each arch should be the best of that edition?

If you do that then the first revision of the next architecture revision will be just around the corner...you're just playing a never-ending waiting game. Waiting for Ryzen is different because (a) it's very close, (b) the competition isn't offering much, (c) Ryzen is definitely a huge step up from AMD's previous CPU release, based on everything we know.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Its idiotic to affirm predictions based on constantly eveloving unfinished test samples.

Possibilities doesn't mean affirming anything...

Not sure why you're quoting that post? Doesn't say anything about memory overclocking? This is a pre-release thread, and if you can't handle the giblets of information then I suggest you wait till it's release. Unless you have anything to add as to why my post might be off base?

Keeping in mind that we have physical boards that consumers can see and touch at CES, which don't quote anywhere near the speeds I've heard. If that isn't interesting to you then no need to comment.

 

[humbug]

Possibilities doesn't mean affirming anything...

Not sure why you're quoting that post? Doesn't say anything about memory overclocking? This is a pre-release thread, and if you can't handle the giblets of information then I suggest you wait till it's release. Unless you have anything to add as to why my post might be off base?

I'm talking about past arguments with you in this thread in which you insisted because 2 Motherboard vendors had 2666Mhz written on them Zen couldn't run higher Memory Speed than that.

 

[ubersonic]

I may get flamed for saying this on an overclocking form but personally I don't really mind if Zen has issues with overclocked/factory overclocked RAM, I don't plan on using it.

The i7 7700K is advertised as compatible with DDR4-2133/2400 so as long as Zen can match that it won't be at any marketing disadvantage.

 

[Silent_Scone]

I'm talking about past arguments with you in this thread in which you insisted because 2 Motherboard vendors had 2666Mhz written on them Zen couldn't run higher Memory Speed than that.

It's not as black and white as that. I'd had other reason to believe that was the case. I did also in fact if you want to quote the past - say that I could be wrong.

That said; If MSI are giving you a first hand insight into their flagship product, and only supports 2666+ memory - that's solid evidence. That's as much as you've got to go on right now. So as far as we know that might still be the case. No other vendor has come forward to confirm officially otherwise. You're trying to make out that I've posted that things absolutely will not change, when I haven't done. I'd still be surprised if ratios above this are viable at launch, though. (That's an opinion based on everything I've heard, opinions are free).

 

[humbug]

Give it a rest plz ^^^^

I may get flamed for saying this on an overclocking form but personally I don't really mind if Zen has issues with overclocked/factory overclocked RAM, I don't plan on using it.

The i7 7700K is advertised as compatible with DDR4-2133/2400 so as long as Zen can match that it won't be at any marketing disadvantage.

Leaked technical data states official Memory support is 2666Mhz, that's the same as Broadwell, Z270 KL is 2400Mhz, Z170 is 2133Mhz

All of those CPU's do and no doubt will run higher frequencies than stated. no real reason to think why some would but others wouldn't.

My Z97 is 1866Mhz, it always has and always will run at 2400Mhz.

 

[Silent_Scone]

Give it a rest plz ^^^^

No thoughts on other vendors possibly having higher support then? Do you think other vendors have better dialed out interference?

What do you think Humbug? I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Also 1) You've just made an affirmation that all IMC and motherboards are made equal by saying no doubt will, which is factually incorrect (no disrespect)

2) 2400Mhz is the maximum supported frequency on Intel Spec sheets for BWE

 

[SiDeards73]

If you do that then the first revision of the next architecture revision will be just around the corner...you're just playing a never-ending waiting game. Waiting for Ryzen is different because (a) it's very close, (b) the competition isn't offering much, (c) Ryzen is definitely a huge step up from AMD's previous CPU release, based on everything we know.

Yeah i thought this too, but i think many people might not upgrade from Series 1 Ryzen to Series 2 if the jump is not huge, much like with Intel, so you can probably afford to buy Series 1 final revision, and wait it out for Series 3 or 4 final revision for the best improvement, anything in between is potentially marginal, if they evolve like Intel chips, obviously this is all complete speculation.

I figure Series 1 Ryzen is a base and buying the best of the first series and the best of the last series is probably going to be the smarter move, i dont think too many people upgrade each generation? i went from Q6600 - 2500k - 4770k, would probably do similar with Zen if the performance is there.

 

[FoxEye]

I may get flamed for saying this on an overclocking forum

It isn't, really.

Overclockers UK is a brand name/ shoppe (ye olde).

It's certainly not a community of "overclockers". If that even means anything in this day and age, when for most people oc'ing just means using a GUI slider to increase clock speed/power a bit

I haven't even oc'd my 2500k, in all these years Could not be arsed!

 

[nashathedog]

If I do buy I'm going to buy as soon as I can and then in a few years when they are coming to the end of the platforms life (AMD said 2020) I'll look at the best available cpu then and as long as it offers a decent boost and there's no platform upgrades I must have I'll go with that, My last 3 cpu upgrades have all required a new motherboard so it'll be nice to not have to for once.

 

[Mauller]

The 2666mhz is the fastest jedec standard for ddr4, anything else is overclocked and beyond spec.

They are stating compatibility with the highest official spec available. That does not mean that the CPU and boards are incapable of using overclocked parts.

 

[Silent_Scone]

The 2666mhz is the fastest jedec standard for ddr4, anything else is overclocked and beyond spec.

They are stating compatibility with the highest official spec available. That does not mean that the CPU and boards are incapable of using overclocked parts.

Motherboard vendors tend to state the maximum operational frequency that's been verified on that particular model. They all do this, as one tends to mirror the other in terms of trumping. What speed that is depends on several factors, the most important one we're yet to ascertain - which comes down to how strong Zen's IMC is.

I'm not sure why people are saying 2666. I didn't think there was any confirmation on official support yet. As far as I'm aware it's 2133/2400mhz...

 

[8 Pack]

Right - last warning - any more bickering and people start getting banned.

I suggest you take a break from this thread, chill out, and come back where there is something of substance worth discussing

AT LAST!!