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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

pmc25 said:
Intel's lineup is pretty much set in stone for the next 2-3 years. If desktop Zen beats them, their response will be higher stock clocks and lower prices. They can't just conjour a new chip out of thin air.

If the Zen APUs that have been leaked (the HPC / Server focused ones) are produced in any volume, Intel have absolutely no answer at all. Hardware or API.

But therein lies the problem ... volume could be a huge issue. Supposedly Zen will initially be TSMC 16nm+ rather than GF 14nmFF LP+. Apparently GF's cheaping out and re-using old tools for 14nmFF (rather than going total copy exact from Samsung) has resulted in major issues for the LP+ version (late and low yield). I don't believe for a second that TSMC won't have minute capacity on 16nm+, especially if Arctic Islands ends up on it for the same reason (both Zen and AI were meant to be GF). Why they didn't subcontract the work to Samsung I have no idea ... but even if there is capacity at H1 Zen launch on TSMC ... if GF haven't sorted themselves out for a '17 Zen APU launch on their process, I think supply will be at best a dribble. Plus of course the APUs will have HBM and presumably require an interposer (or is AMD's new interconnect fabric doing away with that for APUs?) ... and the enterprise APUs are meant to be their killer app and where they could make huge margins.
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Intel will react and release a 8 core mainstream CPU IF Zen happens to have Haswell level performance, though it will take them 6 months or so to do so.
 
I'd like them to react by pushing ahead on III-V or something other than cores. Shareholders gonna sharehold though. Salvaging more duff server chips is a lot cheaper and probably about as effective.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Its not only competition but if they do have something competitive in Zen people do need to buy it too,otherwise it will be back to where we are now or even worse.
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Yeah, my concern is too many people want AMD to be competitive with Intel just so they can get cheaper Intel gear.

Its utterly pointless AMD being competitive if peoples only choice is Intel.
 
humbug said:
Yeah, my concern is too many people want AMD to be competitive with Intel just so they can get cheaper Intel gear.

Its utterly pointless AMD being competitive if peoples only choice is Intel.
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My concern is that AMD might be competitive but just as/even more expensive than Intel. You know with their new "premium" pricing strategy.

I've said already I'll buy AMD but... Zen has to match SB IPC; it has to have more than 4 cores; it has to be well priced (<£200). Deliver all that and I'm planning on making my next build an AMD one.

There is no point in AMD being competitive with existing Intel products that have already saturated the market. So for example, AMD releasing a 4 core Zen with Haswell IPC would be underwhelming. We mostly all already own 4 core Intel CPUs!

So they have to go all-in. 8 core ideally. And not priced exclusively for the ultra enthusiast market.
 
FoxEye said:
My concern is that AMD might be competitive but just as/even more expensive than Intel. You know with their new "premium" pricing strategy.

I've said already I'll buy AMD but... Zen has to match SB IPC; it has to have more than 4 cores; it has to be well priced (<£200). Deliver all that and I'm planning on making my next build an AMD one.

There is no point in AMD being competitive with existing Intel products that have already saturated the market. So for example, AMD releasing a 4 core Zen with Haswell IPC would be underwhelming. We mostly all already own 4 core Intel CPUs!

So they have to go all-in. 8 core ideally. And not priced exclusively for the ultra enthusiast market.
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Like anyone trying to survive against stiff competition AMD have 2 choices

Low Volume - High Margins
High Volume - Low Margins

Right now AMD are shifting with Very Low Margins at Very Low Volume and loosing tonnes of money.
They need to convert that to one or the other initially cited, if they don't they go bust.

If Low Margins - High Volume does not work the only choice they have is to sell their Low Volumes at High Margins, its not AMD's choice, its people who buy hardware who dictate what AMD do and ultimately their fate.
 
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FoxEye said:
You realise it's not a binary choice between two extremes, right?
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Intel vs AMD market share and brand recognition / respect is binary and extreme.

Edit; binary is the wrong word, for that to be true there must be two choices and right now 95% will always recommend or consider Intel over AMD regardless of cost and often even performance.

Two weeks ago in the GPU room someone on a tight budget was asking if he should go a 380 rout with a better CPU or GTX 780 with a lesser CPU, just about everyone told him to go for a downgraded GPU with the better CPU, this is on a mid range GPU, it didn't take him a lot of convincing because the whole of the internet including review sites portray any AMD CPU as not an option under any circumstance.
Sacrificing about 40% GPU performance to have an Intel CPU for gaming, madness unfolding as if its perfectly normal, like some sort of strange good sense reversed dimension..

That is the sort of crap AMD are up-against.
 
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humbug said:
Intel vs AMD market share and brand recognition / respect is binary and extreme.

Edit; binary is the wrong word, for that to be true there must be two choices and right now 95% will always recommend or consider Intel over AMD regardless of cost and often even performance.

Two weeks ago in the GPU room someone on a tight budget was asking if he should go a 380 rout with a better CPU or GTX 780 with a lesser CPU, just about everyone told him to go for a downgraded GPU with the better CPU, this is on a mid range GPU, it didn't take him a lot of convincing because the whole of the internet including review sites portray any AMD CPU as not an option under any circumstance.
Sacrificing about 40% GPU performance to have an Intel CPU for gaming, madness unfolding as if its perfectly normal, like some sort of strange good sense reversed dimension..

That is the sort of crap AMD are up-against.
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You only look at the Pentium G3258 and the amount of overhype around it,even though it did have some significant shortcomings which have been ignored.
 
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Interesting that my AMD Phenom II X6 Six Core 1090T Black Edition 3.20GHz is still consider the top tier AMD cpu for gaming by Toms hardware.

Is that due to the GPU being a great part of the gaming "muscle" that the CPU and will a ZEN cpu make much difference to this?
 
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