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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

ubersonic said:
AMD caused a situation where boards had to be rushed to market with what were essentially alpha BIOSes, many of those boards had issues updating to what are essentially beta BIOSes. You cannot blame manufacturers for inadequacies caused by AMD's timescale.
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Sorry but the Bios have been worked on with the correct engineering samples since the end of December/start of January so that is 8 weeks for them to sort out. What it came down to was the Mobo manufactures not allocating enough resources to it. If they wanted to get it done they could.
 
ubersonic said:
I did, read the thread, I even linked a video of a reviewer and an ex Microsoft guy discussing it (both of who are considered trustworthy).

Manufacturers only had ~3 weeks lead time before launch to get their BIOSes together.
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But that isn't the case in total. We saw mobo working since last year. Yes things changed etc and moved forward but they were still working on them prior to that date. The final spec might have been 3 weeks prior to launch but that should have been time to make sure they didn't brick customers Mobo.

AMD did not force any manufacture to release the board. If the manufacture wasn't happy with the time scale and knew there were issues they had the power to withhold their own products till they were ready. They wanted the cash though and so released them anyways. That to me regardless is a duty of care that companies no longer have be it AMD or the Mobo manufactures.

What AMD did was say we have finished tweaking our CPU's for release and these are final samples and our release date, can you provide boards for that time. What then happened is they all went yes we can, it will be buggy but we will get them out then instead of saying sorry AMD we need another month to release our stuff because we are not ready. AMD could have then taken that and pushed the date accordingly.

It takes two to tango as they say and so yes as I said AMD caused issues with the date they wanted but the manufactures compounded the issue significantly and since not all mobo's are bricking (in fact a small number) then that is down to them rushing certain boards out.
 
Harlequin said:
Cite this please with credible sources.
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Em the boards were working at demos in December which means they needed to of had a base bios i.e Alpha bios. It is very different to saying they only had 3 weeks to get any bios done because we would have had zero running systems with no bios at all for them to be working on. It was also clear they were working because the tech jurno's showed some bios info at said demos and they had features that were board specific in December which means it wasn't AMD's engineering Bios at that time.
 
Curlyriff said:
Tbh though the bricking is down to the Mobo manufacture not AMD though. Nothing that AMD provided should have caused the Mobo to brick. The OS update could never come because it's Microsoft and you can only push them so far. They will do what they want.

The point of the RAM is partially AMD's fault for the delayed engineering samples but boards have been displayed since start of January so they were working on them prior to that (by a few months) so the BIOS to at least not brick is still all the Mobo manufactures issue. Asus seem to be the biggest culprit with these things though.
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All true, but V&V takes a lot of time - time that clearly was not available here for the vendors. This is basic management failure: something you don't plan to do should be done in no time and for free... in other words, not possible.
 
IFW said:
All true, but V&V takes a lot of time - time that clearly was not available here for the vendors. This is basic management failure: something you don't plan to do should be done in no time and for free... in other words, not possible.
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Miracles take an instant , the impossible takes longer. Nothing is impossible , it juts requires correct allocation of times and resources to achieve. Certain motherboard makers have a history of poor management and customer service.
 
Curlyriff said:
Em the boards were working at demos in December which means they needed to of had a base bios i.e Alpha bios. It is very different to saying they only had 3 weeks to get any bios done because we would have had zero running systems with no bios at all for them to be working on. It was also clear they were working because the tech jurno's showed some bios info at said demos and they had features that were board specific in December which means it wasn't AMD's engineering Bios at that time.
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You could use this logic about the first time that a ryzen ever posted on an OEM board.
 
Martini1991 said:
You could use this logic about the first time that a ryzen ever posted on an OEM board.
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Which isn't the same in that AMD would still provide a base engineering Bios that all the manufactures go away with. What isn't clear then is if AMD revised the engineering Bios 3 weeks prior to launch that the mobo manufactures had to start from scratch then to get what they have so far out the chips. But none of us at least know this and so it is all speculation but may be the reason that they are citing 3 weeks when we are aware that mobo manufactures had alpha bios back in December & January.
 
IFW said:
All true, but V&V takes a lot of time - time that clearly was not available here for the vendors. This is basic management failure: something you don't plan to do should be done in no time and for free... in other words, not possible.
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Very true but hopefully my other post about it taking two to tango and that it is also responsibility for board manufactures to have told AMD they were not ready and needed time to sort the Bios out. The cost to do this and the extra month to get them worked on then would have been the same as the time spent now, they just got them out to get cash flow back in on the monies they had already spent maybe because they wanted to get it in this years financial quarter which is likely the case with how the companies trade.

It is that lack of customer care provided by manufactures that frustrates me.
 
Curlyriff said:
they just got them out to get cash flow back in on the monies they had already spent maybe because they wanted to get it in this years financial quarter which is likely the case with how the companies trade.
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AMD wanted it launched to coincide with GDC, the manufacturers could have united as one and said no, but they don't trust each other enough for that because they're competitors.
 
Didn't I read before that many motherboard vendors only got on board quite late on when they realised the chips were going to be good? They were initially not going to bother because they thought it was a dud?
 
ubersonic said:
AMD wanted it launched to coincide with GDC, the manufacturers could have united as one and said no, but they don't trust each other enough for that because they're competitors.
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True but they do have meetings and phonecalls. If they spoke to AMD and said we need 6 weeks or whatever instead of 3 and all of them had done so then AMD in my opinion would have looked at it and gone OK they are all saying the same thing what do we do. It would have been different in that if 1 or 2 had said that then AMD would have likely not done anything different but it only works by having that ability.
 
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