*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

That stream section was smoother on the Ryzen but I don't know what he was smoking to be using Fallout 4 as an example for anything.

He spent quite some time saying Fallout was a badly optimised POS which has abnormal reactions to memory speed and the game speed increases with FPS causing further bugs which is why it is deliberately capped at 60fps unless you manually edit files.

So he takes THAT game, unlocks the FPS and runs the stream demo....

He's got Ashes, Doom, Deus Ex and chooses the most broken game. The cynical view is that it creates the right results for the review but I'm thinking it would have been a better review if he didn't stream demo with Fallout.

Anybody who has actually played Creation engine based games like Skyrim knows physics and framerates are linked,so OFC you would cap at 60FPS.

Having played a few 100 hours of FO4,its settlements and mods which destroy framerates(even the mod channels note this) and most of the channels showing FO4 gameplay are mod channels like MXR anyway.

Nobody is really going to stream vanilla FO4.

I had framerate dips in the games in certain areas like Diamond City,inside the Corvega plant,some parts of Far Harbor,etc but for the most part my IB Core i7 was fine.

But once you start building large settlements and adding mods,its when performance is the bigger issue.

Some of the worst mods are War of the Commonwealth,and FROST Survival Simulator which destroy performance.

 

[Drollic]

Almost 3 weeks into ownership with the Gigabyte B350 Gaming 3 and 1700. Not a single problem to report as yet, can only run my Ram at 2666mhz rather than 3000mhz but I don't know if that is down to the board or the memory or a combination of both

What memory do you have?

 

[Kashinoda]

That stream section was smoother on the Ryzen but I don't know what he was smoking to be using Fallout 4 as an example for anything.

He spent quite some time saying Fallout was a badly optimised POS which has abnormal reactions to memory speed and the game speed increases with FPS causing further bugs which is why it is deliberately capped at 60fps unless you manually edit files.

So he takes THAT game, unlocks the FPS and runs the stream demo....

He's got Ashes, Doom, Deus Ex and chooses the most broken game. The cynical view is that it creates the right results for the review but I'm thinking it would have been a better review if he didn't stream demo with Fallout.

Didn't he just pick it because it performed the worst on Ryzen compared to the other games?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Almost 3 weeks into ownership with the Gigabyte B350 Gaming 3 and 1700. Not a single problem to report as yet, can only run my Ram at 2666mhz rather than 3000mhz but I don't know if that is down to the board or the memory or a combination of both

I think someone else also suggested that one,so sounds like a candidate.

 

[Frozennova]

What memory do you have?

These

My basket at Overclockers UK:

• 1 x Team Group Dark T-Force 8GB (2x4GB) DDR4 PC4-24000C16 3000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black/Grey (TDKED48= £74.99

Total: £74.99
(includes shipping: £0.00)



​

 

[DragonQ]

That stream section was smoother on the Ryzen but I don't know what he was smoking to be using Fallout 4 as an example for anything.

He spent quite some time saying Fallout was a badly optimised POS which has abnormal reactions to memory speed and the game speed increases with FPS causing further bugs which is why it is deliberately capped at 60fps unless you manually edit files.

So he takes THAT game, unlocks the FPS and runs the stream demo....

He's got Ashes, Doom, Deus Ex and chooses the most broken game. The cynical view is that it creates the right results for the review but I'm thinking it would have been a better review if he didn't stream demo with Fallout.

Wasn't it supposed to be a worst case scenario?

 

[wiski]

OK,I know I asked this before but what are the solid motherboards,ie,especially B350 ones currently after the latest updates??

I've been running my Gigabyte AB350M Gaming 3 since Monday, and the only issue I've had with it is that when I was initially setting it up my M.2 drive would sometimes stop being recognized by the BIOS until I reseated it. I haven't had that issue at all in the last few days though, no matter how many times I reboot. Note though that my mATX AB350M is running on the F2 BIOS, while the ATX AB350 is on the F5 BIOS, and my M.2 drive is not listed on the compatibility list Gigabyte provided, so that may have something to do with it.

Aside from that, even though I'm on the F2 BIOS, I'm able to run my RAM at the rated 3200MHz (XMP Profile) even with a 3.9GHz overclock on my 1700. Running a G.Skill kit. (F4-3200C14D-16GTZSK)

Aside from the M.2 issue the board has been solid.

 

[StarShock]

The lower FPS but smoother output seems to be a theme for Ryzen 7 across the board, which is very good going forward.

What I find fascinating at the moment is how skewed everyone's perception is when it comes to gaming benchmarks.

Both the Ryzen 7 range and the 7700k are getting 100FPS+ across the board on 1080p titles.
Most graphics card start to bottleneck at 1440p so the Ryzen 7 and 7700k reach some level of parity when going above 1080p

Personally the difference from 100 to 144hz for me isn't massive, it feels a bit like diminishing returns after 90 (with something like BF4, 1 etc.)

There's a few exceptions, with CSGO your FPS needs to double your refresh rate otherwise the game feels rough... that's some issue with the Source engine. Not sure how many games are like this.

So even if you're gaming/productivity split is 80/20%, I can't see the reason to get the 7700k. Nothing's worse than using your beast game rig to do some video editing and suddenly feel like you've time travelled to the Intel 486 days.

It does make me smile sometimes watching people talking on the internet. There are still people (console people ) who will swear down that anything over 30fps is a waste, and now we got people saying a CPU is terrible because it will only push a game to 100 FPS. I think the testing is worthwhile to show the difference between CPUs, but people get way to carried away with the numbers. IMO anything over 60hz becomes subjective some people don't see the difference some people do and its down to the individual to make up their own mind about what to prioritize

 

[nemesisuk2]

I think someone else also suggested that one,so sounds like a candidate.

Have the same board and it's been solid so far. Picks up my Geil evo X 3000mhz and sets it at that, which is then overclocked to 3200mhz with just the divider. Board is also clocking the 1700 upto 3.6 with no voltage adjustments. Thats with the latest beta bios from Gigabyte F6B.

 

[Frozennova]

Have the same board and it's been solid so far. Picks up my Geil evo X 3000mhz and sets it at that, which is then overclocked to 3200mhz with just the divider. Board is also clocking the 1700 upto 3.6 with no voltage adjustments. Thats with the latest beta bios from Gigabyte F6B.

Got a link for the F6B bios? Can't see it on their website

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Didn't he just pick it because it performed the worst on Ryzen compared to the other games?

Wasn't it supposed to be a worst case scenario?

It isn't the worst case scenario - most FO4 streaming,etc is done with mods,large settlements,etc - look at the popular channels.

Even some of the newest Intel CPUs can be pushed quite hard - SKL/KL do well in this as does the BW CPUs with eDRAM. The game loves high bandwidth,which is not surprising since it is a huge open world game on an engine which really only taxes one to two cores,and taxes the other cores much less.

In my current playthough,which is ultra modded,I was standing in my largest settlement watching a battle through a window - a Xeon E3 1230 V2/Core i7 3770 with a GTX1080 at qHD. I was getting like 20FPS to 25FPS standing still with GPU usage at barely 60% - so even a SKL/KL CPU which is the best CPU for the game will be in the early 30FPS range I suspect. One core was pegged at between 70% to 85% usage IIRC,and the rest had much less usage.

 

[harney]

OK,I know I asked this before but what are the solid motherboards,ie,especially B350 ones currently after the latest updates??

MSI tomahawk seems to be the one well for me that is
but looking at others that have built with it there saying its solid too ....Done two pc's with them both worked great out the box ...I have a Asus b350 prime plus that i am having issue's with that's going back not wasting any more time on it ...

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

I've been running my Gigabyte AB350M Gaming 3 since Monday, and the only issue I've had with it is that when I was initially setting it up my M.2 drive would sometimes stop being recognized by the BIOS until I reseated it. I haven't had that issue at all in the last few days though, no matter how many times I reboot. Note though that my mATX AB350M is running on the F2 BIOS, while the ATX AB350 is on the F5 BIOS, and my M.2 drive is not listed on the compatibility list Gigabyte provided, so that may have something to do with it.

Aside from that, even though I'm on the F2 BIOS, I'm able to run my RAM at the rated 3200MHz (XMP Profile) even with a 3.9GHz overclock on my 1700. Running a G.Skill kit. (F4-3200C14D-16GTZSK)

Aside from the M.2 issue the board has been solid.

Have the same board and it's been solid so far. Picks up my Geil evo X 3000mhz and sets it at that, which is then overclocked to 3200mhz with just the divider. Board is also clocking the 1700 upto 3.6 with no voltage adjustments. Thats with the latest beta bios from Gigabyte F6B.

MSI tomahawk seems to be the one well for me that is
but looking at others that have built with it there saying its solid too ....Done two pc's with them both worked great out the box ...I have a Asus b350 prime plus that i am having issue's with that's going back not wasting any more time on it ...

Thanks so far - looks like the Gigabyte and the ASRock one.

 

[Drollic]

These

My basket at Overclockers UK:

• 1 x Team Group Dark T-Force 8GB (2x4GB) DDR4 PC4-24000C16 3000MHz Dual Channel Kit - Black/Grey (TDKED48= £74.99

Total: £74.99
(includes shipping: £0.00)



​

If the option isn't even available, it's obviously the board. It should run at that spec being only 2*4gb. There's a few people having to run one notch down though with tighter timings. So people with 3200 seem to only reach 3000. Some even with 3400 at 3000.

 

[Frozennova]

If the option isn't even available, it's obviously the board. It should run at that spec being only 2*4gb. There's a few people having to run one notch down though with tighter timings. So people with 3200 seem to only reach 3000. Some even with 3400 at 3000.

Option is available but I just cannot get them to boot at 3000mhz no matter what I try

 

[balky12]

It isn't the worst case scenario - most FO4 streaming,etc is done with mods,large settlements,etc - look at the popular channels.

Even some of the newest Intel CPUs can be pushed quite hard - SKL/KL do well in this as does the BW CPUs with eDRAM. The game loves high bandwidth,which is not surprising since it is a huge open world game on an engine which really only taxes one to two cores,and taxes the other cores much less.

In my current playthough,which is ultra modded,I was standing in my largest settlement watching a battle through a window - a Xeon E3 1230 V2/Core i7 3770 with a GTX1080 at qHD. I was getting like 20FPS to 25FPS standing still with GPU usage at barely 60% - so even a SKL/KL CPU which is the best CPU for the game will be in the early 30FPS range I suspect.

Like I said previously I am not a streamer and haven't touched FO4 however isn't that the point?

If without streaming the 7700k beats Ryzen when it comes to vanilla FO4 but once someone is streaming as well the Ryzen and 7700k swap places. If you start adding mods to the game won't the 7700k suffer more so than the Ryzen?

Maybe I am misunderstanding.

i.e if you want a decent gaming experience and stream high quality simultaneously Ryzen is the go to chip.

 

[wiski]

Thats with the latest beta bios from Gigabyte F6B.

Hopefully sooner than later Gigabyte will update my AB350M Gaming 3 from the F2 BIOS, considering all the updates they're pumping out for the other boards.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Like I said previously I am not a streamer and haven't touched FO4 however isn't that the point?

If without streaming the 7700k beats Ryzen when it comes to vanilla FO4 but once someone is streaming as well the Ryzen and 7700k swap places. If you start adding mods to the game won't the 7700k suffer more so than the Ryzen?

Maybe I am misunderstanding.

i.e if you want a decent gaming experience and stream high quality simultaneously Ryzen is the go to chip.

Again,its a game which requires strong cores and decent memory bandwidth - the Core i7 5775C is very close to a Core i7 7700K for example. A Core i3 7350K beats a Core i7 3770K and matches a Core i5 6600K for example.

Even the X99 CPUs although not quite to the level of the Core i7 7700K/Core i7 5775C seem to do OKish too,so I would still think even a Core i7 7700K/Core i7 5775C or even a Core i7 6800K would be a better choice for FO4 with streaming,since TBH most of the cores will be at a reasonably low load after the first two or three.

You need to consider the Creation engine is based on the Gamebryo engine which was first used by Bethesda in Morrowind in 2002.

By then it was already a decade old - the first version of Gamebryo was released in 1991!!

Edit!!

TBH,if Bethesda uses the same engine for the next Elder Scrolls,I might not bother buying it for a while.

They seriously need to get their finger out of their arse,and move over to a newer engine.

 

[gavinh87]

Again,its a game which requires strong cores and decent memory bandwidth - the Core i7 5775C is very close to a Core i7 7700K for example. A Core i3 7350K beats a Core i7 3770K and matches a Core i5 6600K for example.

Even the X99 CPUs although not quite to the level of the Core i7 7700K/Core i7 5775C seem to do OKish too,so I would still think even a Core i7 7700K/Core i7 5775C or even a Core i7 6800K would be a better choice for FO4 with streaming,since TBH most of the cores will be at a reasonably low load after the first two or three.

You need to consider the Creation engine is based on the Gamebryo engine which was first used by Bethesda in Morrowind in 2002.

By then it was already a decade old - the first version of Gamebryo was released in 1991!!

Edit!!

TBH,if Bethesda uses the same engine for the next Elder Scrolls,I might not bother buying it for a while.

They seriously need to get their finger out of their arse,and move over to a newer engine.

A 7700k or a 5775c or a 6800k would be better than ryzen for fallout4 and streaming? Did you see the video? The i7s were a stuttering mess.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

A 7700k or a 5775c or a 6800k would be better than ryzen for fallout4 and streaming? Did you see the video? The i7s were a stuttering mess.

Thats the issue - do any of you actually play the game or just look at charts?? Did you actually read what I said - NO large channel is playing vanilla FO4 and streaming.That was done back at launch in 2015.

It is all modded FO4,with large settlements. Most of the people still making FO4 videos are people testing mods - seriously go and look at all the FO4 channels. MXR,Oxhorn,etc.

It pushes a huge single core workload - FFS I get 20FPS sitting in my large settlement during a battle just watching it with a GTX1080.

No amount of cores is going to save you.

Edit!!

Seriously have some of you just woken up to Bethesda games or something??

Why do you think Fallout 3,Fallout:New Vegas,FO4,Skyrim,Morrowind,etc are still being played even now??

What because of the lovely bugless,timeless nature of Bethesda RPGs??

Nope,because of the massive mod community who has been propping up Bethesda RPGs for the last decade despite their bloody bugs,and huge amount of poor QC,and idiotic engine choices.

If I was playing vanilla FO4,I would not be moaning at how my IB Core i7 is flailing around like a headless chicken.

It runs literally everyone other game I have fine.

Not even PS2 is bad as modded FO4.

Its why if the Elder Scrolls uses Creation again,it will be only worth like a £10 purchase in a Steam sale for me.