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*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

ben90 said:
One thing that I'm still confused about is performance when streaming while playing a game. If I'm looking to stream and play on a 144hz monitor, considering Ryzen is dropping frames to the 7700K, will the deficit close if using a Ryzen chip? In other words, can the 7700K keep the fps lead while streaming when compared to a Ryzen?
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Watch this at the 20 minute mark, it shows the difference with Ryzen and Intel on one of the worst optimized games out currently that people are benching with.

 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Thats the issue - do any of you actually play the game or just look at charts?? Did you actually read what I said - NO large channel is playing vanilla FO4 and streaming.That was done back at launch in 2015.

It is all modded FO4,with large settlements. Most of the people still making FO4 videos are people testing mods - seriously go and look at all the FO4 channels. MXR,Oxhorn,etc.

It pushes a huge single core workload - FFS I get 20FPS sitting in my large settlement during a battle just watching it with a GTX1080.

No amount of cores is going to save you.

Edit!!

Seriously have some of you just woken up to Bethesda games or something??

Why do you think Fallout 3,Fallout:New Vegas,FO4,Skyrim,Morrowind,etc are still being played even now??

What because of the lovely bugless,timeless nature of Bethesda RPGs??

Nope,because of the massive mod community who has been propping up Bethesda RPGs for the last decade despite their bloody bugs,and huge amount of poor QC,and idiotic engine choices.

If I was playing vanilla FO4,I would not be moaning at how my IB Core i7 is flailing around like a headless chicken.

It runs literally everyone other game I have fine.

Not even PS2 is bad as modded FO4.
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So you think a heavily modified fallout4 being played whilst streamed will perform better on an i7 than ryzen? The i7s cannot do it at vanilla settings. Surely this would favour the ryzen. Yes the FPS will be lower but at least the streaming will be smooth.
 
gavinh87 said:
So you think a heavily modified fallout4 being played whilst streamed will perform better on an i7 than ryzen? The i7s cannot do it at vanilla settings. Surely this would favour the ryzen. Yes the FPS will be lower but at least the streaming will be smooth.
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I was looking at core utilisation with my CPU - as you start building larger and larger settlements,and start adding mods,the game starts hogging more and more on one or two cores. The issue is it means Ryzen would hit that bottleneck quicker than say a Core i7 7700K or a Core i7 6800K,that is what will be the problem,especially when you consider,that the Core i7 7700K can hit huge memory overclocks which can boost performance by upto 20% to 30% in the game,and its a poster child for SKL/KL memory overclocking.

It would not surprise me one bit if I had a Core i5 2500K at close to 5GHZ with overclocked RAM it would show my Xeon E3 1230 V2/Core i7 3770 a clean set of heals in the game.

Ryzen is around the speed of my CPU in the game,and it was fine for a normal playthrough - in fact unless you are mega-modding FO4 with big settlements,I would say Ryzen is more than good enough for FO4 in general. Its just with mods it exposes the real issue with the ***** engine.

The game actually does have experimental multi-threading support which you can enable via console commands,and it did help with framerates but it was buggy and caused the game to crash.

Now if that AMD and Bethesda collaboration means they can get that sorted,AMD would destroy Intel in the game. Forget streaming.

Honestly,I hope AMD can Bethesda to get Vulkan into the next Elder Scrolls. If it uses Creation again,Bethesda can go and do one.

I will hopefully have got a 6C/12T Ryzen 2 CPU by then - £340 for a 120ish MM2 quad core is a ripoff.
 
Having said that,if Ryzen starts supporting higher speed RAM better and better over the next few months,I expect you will start seeing some largish performance jumps in FO4. TBH,I can't make a fair assessment of performance in the game,with current BIOSes,as I think we will see Ryzen memory support improving,and if the AMD Bethesda collaboration means they can get threading to work better in the game,it might look very different in the near future.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
Having said that,if Ryzen starts supporting higher speed RAM better and better over the next few months,I expect you will start seeing some largish performance jumps in FO4. TBH,I can't make a fair assessment of performance in the game,with current BIOSes,as I think we will see Ryzen memory support improving,and if the AMD Bethesda collaboration means they can get threading to work better in the game,it might look very different in the near future.
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Yes both of them are interesting things to keep an eye on ...Would surly be nice if Ryzen /MB bios's keeps allowing of upping the ram speed because as we have seen Ryzen loves it more so than any other current cpu's out there suppsoe this is thanks to that fabric ...And i am sure we are in for a treat with Bethesda I sure hope there able to patch in FO4 and others ......

I assume you have not tested the experimental multi-threading on Ryzen ? would be interesting to see how Ryzen copes with it ..wonder if its any more stable
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
I was looking at core utilisation with my CPU - as you start building larger and larger settlements,and start adding mods,the game starts hogging more and more on one or two cores. The issue is it means Ryzen would hit that bottleneck quicker than say a Core i7 7700K or a Core i7 6800K,that is what will be the problem,especially when you consider,that the Core i7 7700K can hit huge memory overclocks which can boost performance by upto 20% to 30% in the game,and its a poster child for SKL/KL memory overclocking.

It would not surprise me one bit if I had a Core i5 2500K at close to 5GHZ with overclocked RAM it would show my Xeon E3 1230 V2/Core i7 3770 a clean set of heals in the game.

Ryzen is around the speed of my CPU in the game,and it was fine for a normal playthrough - in fact unless you are mega-modding FO4 with big settlements,I would say Ryzen is more than good enough for FO4 in general. Its just with mods it exposes the real issue with the ***** engine.

The game actually does have experimental multi-threading support which you can enable via console commands,and it did help with framerates but it was buggy and caused the game to crash.

Now if that AMD and Bethesda collaboration means they can get that sorted,AMD would destroy Intel in the game. Forget streaming.

Honestly,I hope AMD can Bethesda to get Vulkan into the next Elder Scrolls. If it uses Creation again,Bethesda can go and do one.

I will hopefully have got a 6C/12T Ryzen 2 CPU by then - £340 for a 120ish MM2 quad core is a ripoff.
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I think you have misunderstood me or I didnt explain myself good enough. I'm not doubting that mods kill the performance of even the fastest gaming cpu. Nor that the i7 kills ryzen in fallout 4. However when streaming this all changes and I can't imagine the i7 clawing this back no matter how hard it was pushed. The frame rates would tank on both but the streaming will still perform better on ryzen.
 
CAT-THE-FIFTH said:
It might explain the sudden response of AMD saying "but Win10 is fine",I suspect they have AMD over a barrel on this! :(

Its a major embarrassment for them that their old OS seems to work better with new hardware than their new one.
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I have a passion for win 7 nothing compares to it in terms of DPC and being able to get really low buffering with ASIO in DAW's ....
However win 8.1 & 10 are just worse off not by far but still you would expect it to be the same or at least better

Spent endless hours trying to get both 8.1 & 10 to be the same as 7 but no joy ...neither of them come close to win 7

Never mind win 10 being (The ultimate spyware /data harvesting suite V 10 )
 
Ryzen has more cores which generally should mean better streaming capability but Fallout 4 is a BS game to use as an example.

And because he chose that game it leaves the question of how unique is that result to that game because of how bad Fallout 4 behaves.
 
gavinh87 said:
I think you have misunderstood me or I didnt explain myself good enough. I'm not doubting that mods kill the performance of even the fastest gaming cpu. Nor that the i7 kills ryzen in fallout 4. However when streaming this all changes and I can't imagine the i7 clawing this back no matter how hard it was pushed. The frame rates would tank on both but the streaming will still perform better on ryzen.
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The issue,is that the game is very single core limited in the situations I mentioned,not nearly as much when playing normally. My main worry is that Ryzen will hit that wall before the Intel CPUs,and when you hit that wall performs just crashes - 60% utilisation of a GTX1080 at qHD when standing looking at a battle,with one core taxed to the max in reality is the issue. Having 8 threads didn't help performance and all you would be streaming is your CPU getting its arse handed to it.

But ultimately we will need to agree to disagree - luckily for AMD,open world games like ME:A will thread better and Ryzen will probably perform well in it,in all situations.

Its what will get me off FO4,I am not going to throw any more money at the game TBH.

Frostbite is an amazing engine which scales well with hardware - DA:I looked lovely and runs well.

If anything the chap should stream ME:A,as that will be what many people will be starting to do in the next few weeks,and you don't need to contend with mods! ;)

harney said:
Yes both of them are interesting things to keep an eye on ...Would surly be nice if Ryzen /MB bios's keeps allowing of upping the ram speed because as we have seen Ryzen loves it more so than any other current cpu's out there suppsoe this is thanks to that fabric ...And i am sure we are in for a treat with Bethesda I sure hope there able to patch in FO4 and others ......

I assume you have not tested the experimental multi-threading on Ryzen ? would be interesting to see how Ryzen copes with it ..wonder if its any more stable
Click to expand...

I still need to wait until mini-ITX motherboards start being released,as it would be hard to shoe horn an ATX board into my tiny case.

But I might be doing a build for a mate who is asking around,so will see if I can do a quick test.....FOR SCIENCE!! :p
 
harney said:
I have a passion for win 7 nothing compares to it in terms of DPC and being able to get really low buffering with ASIO in DAW's ....
However win 8.1 & 10 are just worse off not by far but still you would expect it to be the same or at least better

Spent endless hours trying to get both 8.1 & 10 to be the same as 7 but no joy ...neither of them come close to win 7
Click to expand...

Its MS what do you expect??
harney said:
Never mind win 10 being (The ultimate spyware /data harvesting suite V 10 )
Click to expand...

Yeah,they will only see my random ranting on forums,and posting Moose related articles.

:p
 
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