*** AMD "Zen" thread (inc AM4/APU discussion) ***

[NeverWinter]

What happens when we get to 1nm? Will there be improvements like 0.70nm, 0.50, 0.40, 0.14, 0.7 etc.. until 0nm? lol

The size of individual silicon atoms (around 0.2nm) would be a hard physical limit (with circuits one atom wide), but its behaviour becomes unstable and difficult to control before then. (http://theconversation.com/with-sil...l-power-the-next-electronics-revolution-46287)

 

[willhub]

So one can assume that as our CPUs are getting smaller, as we start to hit the hard limit of reduction of transistors, the physical hardware will then start to increase to add more power?

 

[4K8KW10]

Will there be improvements like 0.70nm, 0.50, 0.40, 0.14, 0.7 etc.. until 0nm? lol

Probably no.

What happens when we get to 1nm?

Quantum, cloud power via internet connection... other technologies....

So one can assume that as our CPUs are getting smaller, as we start to hit the hard limit of reduction of transistors, the physical hardware will then start to increase to add more power?

 

[jigger]

What happens when we get to 1nm? Will there be improvements like 0.70nm, 0.50, 0.40, 0.14, 0.7 etc.. until 0nm? lol

Processing power will be so abundant you won’t need a PC. Passively powdered devices, smart carpets and wall paper for everyone!

 

[almoststew1990]

Am I going to see much difference in upgrading my BIOS and CPU/chipset drivers from the launch ones? I saw the second release was a bit buggy or something so didn't bother.

My board is a Asus x470 Prime Pro. The latest BIOS is from the end of September. I'm on a July one I think.

 

[welshrat]

Am I going to see much difference in upgrading my BIOS and CPU/chipset drivers from the launch ones? I saw the second release was a bit buggy or something so didn't bother.

My board is a Asus x470 Prime Pro. The latest BIOS is from the end of September. I'm on a July one I think.

I have the same board with a 3700x. Latest bios is fine. I would suggest moving to latest drivers and bios

 

[RavenXXX2]

Wow Ryzen 2 is not compatible with max payne games, just tried it and I confirm it crashes.

 

[Harlequin]

WOW Starlancer is not compatible with any modern cpu or OS either......

 

[Panos]

What happens when we get to 1nm? Will there be improvements like 0.70nm, 0.50, 0.40, 0.14, 0.7 etc.. until 0nm? lol

2nm going to be the barrier for CPUs & GPUs. Anything smaller and there is going to be too much electric interference.

 

[TNA]

2nm going to be the barrier for CPUs & GPUs. Anything smaller and there is going to be too much electric interference.

By the time we get there, there will be some other tech or way of improving me thinks. At least that is what Keller was saying.

 

[Panos]

By the time we get there, there will be some other tech or way of improving me thinks. At least that is what Keller was saying.

We would be moving to Carbon by then. But is not that far away to hit the 2nm, 2024-2025 is just 5 years away.

 

[StriderX]

Even if you move to carbon, it’s not going to stop the limitations of quantum tunnelling at atomic wavelengths.

We also have limitations on heat density regardless of technology, something we’re starting to notice I’d assume.

 

[Aretak]

Wow Ryzen 2 is not compatible with max payne games, just tried it and I confirm it crashes.

There are always going to be compatibility issues between old software and modern operating systems and hardware. Seems a weird reason to go flouncing off returning an entire system, unless you're a Youtuber looking to whip up outrage for views I suppose.

If you're really interested in playing games from the XP era and before, it'd be best to keep a second system around with some older components and a period-appropriate OS installed. You could get a system for XP gaming that'd run everything at >100fps for less than £100, combining something like a Sandy Bridge i3-based system with a 750 Ti (which has official XP drivers). There aren't many XP games that can make use of more than a single core (some even have issues if you have more than one core), so a lot of people even disable all but one in the BIOS or use software to limit it per application. Of course, you can go with period-appropriate hardware too, but that's a lot more expensive. Something around the Sandy Bridge era seems to provide a good balance of compatibility without being gouged for "retro" hardware.

Although Max Payne is even older than that and apparently had issues running on XP initially. It entertains me that I found a thread from 2004 with somebody having issues running it on XP, which contains a patch link providing a fix that still works today. It's somehow comforting to know that 3D Realms' FTP server is still up and running almost 16 years later.

https://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/130554-max-payne-1-doesnt-work-in-xp/

 

[Panos]

Wow Ryzen 2 is not compatible with max payne games, just tried it and I confirm it crashes.

Those games are 20 years old, made for Windows 98/ME!!!! Let them die for heaven sake.
Backwards compatibility had held up Windows & Linux back. See what happens with Linux distros dropping completely compatibility for anything older than 5 years and how much faster running compared to all other distros.

 

[TNA]

Not bothered at all about Max Payne. I have it on steam, picked it up many years ago as I remember enjoying it on release so wanted it in my collection, but actually never felt like playing it again in the end. If it was say Deus Ex, then I may feel a bit different. Would I return my 3600, mobo and RAM over it? Not a chance.

 

[opethdisciple]

Played that game at Uni in 2000. Times change.

 

[pete910]

See what happens with Linux distros dropping completely compatibility for anything older than 5 years and how much faster running compared to all other distros.

Care to elaborate on that bit ?

 

[Panos]

Care to elaborate on that bit ?

Clear Linux is a great example here. It only works on Haswell era and newer CPUs, with few exceptions on Ivy Bridge also. It also works AMD Bulldozer and newer only.
Is surprisingly fast distro dwarfing the performance rest by huge margins on most benchmarks. All other distros (and windows) are build to support everything released this century on 64bit and previous century on 32bit. Carrying a lot of crap, while none of the optimizations.

That forces the OS to not having optimized Kernels and software to the latest tech.

Gentoo build for Zen only, is surprisingly fast distro also, because it doesn't carry useless code and flags and especially if compiled with GCC 10 fully utilizes all the advanced architectural parts of the Zen 1 & Zen 2.

And since I am on technical details, lets put this also. The Scheduler runs on 15ms intervals talking to CPU and the latter decides how to boost.
Ryzen 3000 CPUs are designed to operate on 1ms intervals and decide how to boost per 1ms not 15ms. That is why is paramount to run latest chipset drivers (at least the one after August) as it overrides partially the windows scheduler forcing it to communicate on 1ms intervals with the Ryzen CPUs. So CPU clocks are faster to respond and throttle according to the need 15 times faster than the Windows Scheduler by default.

 

[Martini1991]

Those games are 20 years old, made for Windows 98/ME!!!! Let them die for heaven sake.
Backwards compatibility had held up Windows & Linux back. See what happens with Linux distros dropping completely compatibility for anything older than 5 years and how much faster running compared to all other distros.

I played through the Max Payne games just last year on my Ryzen 2XXX kit. I'd have been devastated if my Ryzen 3XXX upgrade had prevented me from playing them.

PC gaming always has "That backlog" as a positive.

I'd use my Girlfriend's gaming PC to play the game though, the same as I had to with Amazing Spiderman since it will not work on AMD GPU's.

 

[Panos]

I played through the Max Payne games just last year on my Ryzen 2XXX kit. I'd have been devastated if my Ryzen 3XXX upgrade had prevented me from playing them.

PC gaming always has "That backlog" as a positive.

You can always player them with virtual machine. Or in compatibility mode. The guy in the video hasn't said anything about trying this.
I play Ravenloft 2 tonight on my 3900X. I have no issues other than would loved to have a CRT monitor.