AMD's FSR3 possibly next month ?

[g67575]

Whats the point, fluid motion frames makes the image look like vomit and adds a lot of latency. Unless Nvidia can release that without the issues then dont see the point.

I think it makes sense from a gameplay perspective, 60 FPS or above (framegen or not) still looks smoother and should make gameplay flow better.

Because most people look at the whole 60 frames / 120 frames, not individual frames during gameplay.

I think a lot of people would appreciate the convenience of being able to just enable a single driver toggle, to enable frame generation in nearly all games.

AMD will probably want to implement the equivalent of AFMF for consoles as well, where 4K resolution is much more challenging.

Regarding individual frames, the quality is the same with frame generation for stationary images... When I stop to examine detail in games, I'm not usually moving the camera or character a great deal.

Remember that most don't have an RTX 4090, so can't rely on raw GPU processing power to render frames

The 4090 is a beast at rendering frames, but hardly what I would call efficient (at least, unless you apply limits to core voltage or a power limit) with a TDP of 450w.

 

[ooStevo]

you mean proper HDR right ? some marketing BS goes on with allowing to put HDR sticker on and its vey noticable compared to screens that offer proper HDR

My TV has Dolby Vision,HDR10, HDR10+ etc and it really makes a difference to colours,blacks and especially the whites,my god its so bright sometimes it can burn out your eyeballs lol. In fact I burst a blood vessel in my eye about 4 days ago because of the brightness (late at night gaming) Learned my lesson now though.

 

[Nexus18]

Pretty impressive tbf.

 

[wunkley]

It pains me to do it, but I'm calling total Emperor's New Clothes on this DLSS to FSR3 Frame gen mod. I've tested it this week on and off in 5 different games and my conclusion is.....it does nothing positive at all.

Before any fanboys throw their toys out of the pram take a deep breath. I've donated money to the mod maker, and I think the effort and principles are great. However, after getting excited about it initially, it just does not do what frame generation is supposed to do i.e. make games look and feel more fluid and essentially 'smoother'.

To elaborate a bit....

(NOTE: My testing is on a 3090FE using a 48" OLED HDR VRR, 120Hz Gsync Compatible screen.)

I'm well aware that basic framerate before enabling frame gen should be around 60fps minimum ideally, and in my testing I've made sure of this. I've also tested, by adjusting game settings accordingly, going form ~60 to ~100 and ~90 to ~120 (or rather 116 as Reflex is enabled by default in most games with this mod).

Also, although I've not used DLSS frame gen before as I have a 3090, I'm not totally green when it comes to generated frames. I use "Motion Reprojection" (interpolation) on my Reverb G2 VR headset all the time, and I've experimented with interpolation on various TV's over the years. I know how it's supposed to LOOK and FEEL, and this mod just does not do it in any game, at all for me.

In summary
Ignore what the FPS counter is telling you at the top of your screen. The jump from 60fps to 100fps is psychologically thrilling, initially, but in reality it's doing nothing good. My findings are:

1. It makes no real difference to the fluidity / smoothness feel of a game
2. It adds artefacts / ghosting to UI elements and/ or on screen objects/ characters in some games
2. Aside from actual ghosting artefacts that are present in some games, it adds more 'general ghosting' that is present on an OLED screen when you pan the camera (unless you use black frame insertion). 'More frames' should reduce this general ghosting effect. It doesn't with this mod and it's actually worse! - it looks like motion blur is turned on in the game (and it's not).
3. In most games it negatively affects framepacing if you are using VRR and you can't max out/ match the framerate to the refresh rate of your screen.
This is the biggest negative for me. If the sole purpose of frame gen is to make games look and feel more fluid and essentially 'smoother', then introducing any framepacing issues/ micro judder is just pointless, and ridiculous. What's the point of 100fps vs 60 if it's not smooth?
4. And then we need to talk about the raised input lag. This one is obvious that most people know about. But given all the negative points above, adding raised input lag is just the nail in the coffin for me.

To sum it up in a sentence: This mod makes games look and feel worse vs not using it.

As I've said in another post, I really need to try native DLSS3 frame generation on a 40 series card, but that's not happening any time soon.

Would be interested to hear other people's thoughts on the above.

 

[g67575]

I think the most noticeable benefit is bound to be from 30 to 60 FPS.

Just like moving from console gaming to PC.

If you're already at a minimum of 60, I'm not sure it's really worth using frame generation, unless there's no noticeable drawbacks

I still think it could be a useful technology, to help GPUs reach 60, particularly at high resolutions like 4K.

I watched a video of frame gen when DLSS3 was released, and was impressed by the smoothness of the video in The Witcher 3.

 

[wunkley]

I think the most noticeable benefit is bound to be from 30 to 60 FPS.

Just like moving from console gaming to PC.

If you're already at a minimum of 60, I'm not sure it's really worth using frame generation, unless there's no noticeable drawbacks

I still think it could be a useful technology, to help GPUs reach 60, particularly at high resolutions like 4K.

I watched a video of frame gen when DLSS3 was released, and was impressed by the smoothness of the video in The Witcher 3.

That's what I used to think, but you've missed the mark on a few points there bud.

It's not the same as moving from console to PC as when you do that you're moving from 30 actual frames to 60 actual frames, and getting the reduced input lag and better smoothness that goes with it. A 60fps 'end result' using frame gen means your base frame rate would be ~30, so input lag would the same, no actually it would be even worse. Never mind the increased visual artefacts you would get starting at such a low base frame rate. There's a reason AMD etc actually recommend 60fps as the minimum starting point before using frame gen.

Also, there is zero point in watching any online videos to gauge frame gen. Even though I do (for info and entertainment) the inherent 60fps max of youtube and the different way people capture footage means it's basically pointless. You HAVE to physically try it yourself.

 

[Nexus18]

It absolutely does make games have better motion fluidity and thus look smoother based on my testing. It depends on the game how good it will be. Cp.2077 and ark (even with a poor base fps) plays and looks better.

I'm using it on a aw 34" qd oled gsync ultimate screen so maybe the gsync module is helping to smooth out the stutters better as gsync module is still king here as per pcmonitors.info findings especially with lower and fluctuating FPS.

Agree on most other points though.

 

[wunkley]

@Nexus18 Interesting point you make about the Gsync module there. Much as I love my current screen, I used to have an Acer x34 1440p Ultrawide and that had a Gsync module, and I do have nagging doubt it might have been better in some ways for some games when it comes to frame pacing. I should get it out of storage and set it up to test this mod, but I really can't be arsed

Also, aside from this framepacing issue, the thing that's bothering me most is this 'general motion ghosting' I'm talking about. i.e. this mod makes it look like I have aggressive motion blur set on in the game settings, when it's not. How do you find this aspect on your OLED screen with this mod? It's this that's confusing me too, as more frames/ interpolation should = less 'general motion ghosting', in the same way motion smoothing does on a TV broadcast...

 

[Nexus18]

@Nexus18 Interesting point you make about the Gsync module there. Much as I love my current screen, I used to have an Acer x34 1440p Ultrawide and that had a Gsync module, and I do have nagging doubt it might have been better in some ways for some games when it comes to frame pacing. I should get it out of storage and set it up to test this mod, but I really can't be arsed

Also, aside from this framepacing issue, the thing that's bothering me most is this 'general motion ghosting' I'm talking about. i.e. this mod makes it look like I have aggressive motion blur set on in the game settings, when it's not. How do you find this aspect on your OLED screen with this mod? It's this that's confusing me too, as more frames/ interpolation should = less 'general motion ghosting', in the same way motion smoothing does on a TV broadcast...

Can't say I've noticed much ghosting tbh, at least nothing distracting. In fact when I was playing hogwarts earlier, I found motion clearer in some parts like when walking through hogsmeade with the signs.

 

[Nexus18]

Tried starfield out and it 100% is way smoother in the cities, go from 60/70 fps to 100+. Unfortunately can't get it working on dying light 2 since the option in menu is only present if a 40xx is detected.

 

[SkeeterUK]

Tried starfield out and it 100% is way smoother in the cities, go from 60/70 fps to 100+. Unfortunately can't get it working on dying light 2 since the option in menu is only present if a 40xx is detected.

https://youtu.be/okv3gRTtobY suppose to work?

 

[Nexus18]

https://youtu.be/okv3gRTtobY suppose to work?

Not for me, have copied the files there but no option to enable frame gen in the game menu. Tried enabling it via the config file but also doesn't work.

 

[g67575]

Also, there is zero point in watching any online videos to gauge frame gen. Even though I do (for info and entertainment) the inherent 60fps max of youtube and the different way people capture footage means it's basically pointless. You HAVE to physically try it yourself.

Well, my monitor is 60hz anyway.

I understand the point about a lack of responsiveness in games regarding frame generation, especially at lower frame rates.

I've tried frame gen a bit on Forspoken, but haven't decided if I preferred it or not.

 

[chris85oc]

Idk, this hacked up solution for fsr3 via dlssfg dll will obviously not work as good as native fsr3 or even better, native dlssfg on a 4x series. It’s a nice option for 2x/3x series cards but not as good as the real deal.

I’m on a aw3423dw ( so gsync module ) and a 4090 and every single game i tried with dlss3 i kept it on. And that’s for going from 45-60 fps to 90-120 ( cyberpunk 2077 pathtracing dlss q rr etc ). So worst case scenario ( fps and fast paced and very intensive gpuwise ).

Every single time, i kept it on. It feels and looks smoother than 45-60. It feels and looks like 90-120fps. Keep in mind i’m also on OLED which has the lowest response times / latency whatever. Most people will be on ips/va which inherently have way bigger latency so the fact that some ‘pretend’ to feel the latency there is absurd to me.

Anyway, back to the point. So native DLSSFG on a 4x series card is smoother and feels great, just as if it double my frames. In cp2077, witcher3, alan wake 2, portal RTX. Might be other games ive used it in, but cant recall now. Havent played much in the last 2 months since i’ve been travelling a bit.

 

[Nexus18]

Idk, this hacked up solution for fsr3 via dlssfg dll will obviously not work as good as native fsr3 or even better, native dlssfg on a 4x series. It’s a nice option for 2x/3x series cards but not as good as the real deal.

I’m on a aw3423dw ( so gsync module ) and a 4090 and every single game i tried with dlss3 i kept it on. And that’s for going from 45-60 fps to 90-120 ( cyberpunk 2077 pathtracing dlss q rr etc ). So worst case scenario ( fps and fast paced and very intensive gpuwise ).

Every single time, i kept it on. It feels and looks smoother than 45-60. It feels and looks like 90-120fps. Keep in mind i’m also on OLED which has the lowest response times / latency whatever. Most people will be on ips/va which inherently have way bigger latency so the fact that some ‘pretend’ to feel the latency there is absurd to me.

Anyway, back to the point. So native DLSSFG on a 4x series card is smoother and feels great, just as if it double my frames. In cp2077, witcher3, alan wake 2, portal RTX. Might be other games ive used it in, but cant recall now. Havent played much in the last 2 months since i’ve been travelling a bit.

It is nowhere as good as nvidias frame gen, no surprise there since nvidia tech is always better but it works well enough this mod, HOWEVER, depending on the game, some feel and look awful even if the fps is higher. It is a damn sight better than amds official FSR 3 integrations so far though, even compared to avatar FSR 3, that game felt and looked awful and Alex/DF has confirmed it with evidence now that there are frame pacing issues with VRR and when your fps fluctuates so that version is a no go for me, not even having the gsync ultimate module smooths this out.

Nvidias frame gen fake FPS actually feels and looks like the fps it is displaying where as with this mod and even the official fsr 3, it doesn't quite feel/look like what fps is being output but if is works well, it can provide the better motion fluidity/smoothness, Daniel Owen has basically said the exact same too.

As the saying goes, you get what you pay for but this will do just fine for me until 50xx, can't complain since it's "free" Just need more PT titles now to really make the most of frame gen.

Edit:

Also the biggest pro with this mod is being able to use it with dlss. Unless official fsr 3 integrations changes it will be a no for me and many others who won't use fsr 2 even if the frame gen issues get fixed

 

[fs123]

I wonder if it's possible to add support for AMD cards?

I'm guessing not because the mod makes use of Nvidia's proprietary streamline super resolution tech

I've tested the mod with Cyberpunk and Witcher 3 and found that the mod allows RTX users to use any upscaler with FSR3 frame gen so the real issue is that Nvidia locked down streamline so it only works with RTX cards. It is not due to the DLSS only requirement.

 

[Nexus18]

I've tested the mod with Cyberpunk and Witcher 3 and found that the mod allows RTX users to use any upscaler with FSR3 frame gen so the real issue is that Nvidia locked down streamline so it only works with RTX cards. It is not due to the DLSS only requirement.

Can XESS be used with the official FSR 3/FG implementation then? What about native with official FSR 3/FG?

 

[fs123]

Can XESS be used with the official FSR 3/FG implementation then? What about native with official FSR 3/FG?

What has that got to do with what I posted? Do you work for Nvidia and feel the need to defend them? If AMD is locking down FSR3 then that is their issue. Nvidia is the pioneer of the proprietary disease since they took over Ageia (Physx) so not sure why AMD is the evil corporation in your eyes.
In any case, Which is worse...Nvidia allowing all upscalers with frame gen ONLY on their own 4000 cards or AMD locking the upscaler to FSR2 but providing frame gen for all?

 

[Nexus18]

What has that got to do with what I posted? Do you work for Nvidia and feel the need to defend them? If AMD is locking down FSR3 then that is their issue. Nvidia is the pioneer of the proprietary disease since they took over Ageia (Physx) so not sure why AMD is the evil corporation in your eyes.
In any case, Which is worse...Nvidia allowing all upscalers with frame gen on their 4000 cards or AMD locking the upscaler to FSR2 but providing frame gen for all?

TBF, your post isn't exactly clear at what you're trying to get at but streamline itself is not locked down to RTX gpus, in fact, it's not even anything relevant to us end users/gamers, it's purely for developers.

GitHub - NVIDIAGameWorks/Streamline: Streamline Integration Framework

Streamline Integration Framework. Contribute to NVIDIAGameWorks/Streamline development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

And what g67575 has stated isn't correct, whole point of streamline is to faciliate the implementation of all rtx tech and other branded features in one go as opposed to devs having to do it seperately so blame amd for not wanting to join OSS.

I've tested the mod with Cyberpunk and Witcher 3 and found that the mod allows RTX users to use any upscaler with FSR3 frame gen so the real issue is that Nvidia locked down streamline so it only works with RTX cards. It is not due to the DLSS only requirement.

Both are just as bad as each other, neither company is good and it's foolish to think amd are the good guys, they aren't, you buy what fits your needs and budget at the time, don't let morals get in the way as neither company has your best interests at heart.

 

[tommybhoy]

so the fact that some ‘pretend’ to feel the latency there is absurd to me.

While I can't comment on your experiences, your experiences are different than anyone else's, bit bullish to say everyone else is wrong.

I don't really rate FG that much for latency, running on QD-Oled, but that's just me.

Daniel Owen talks about difference of experience on his new vid talking about FG if that helps you understand different needs/wants for different people.