'Anti' Isalm cartoons....

cleanbluesky said:
We have seen many a protest. We have seen religious protest. What we dont want to see is death threats on placards, because that is not a mere protest
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Right, but it sounds like you were condemning Spawn (I was guilty of this at first) for associating with people who invited him to the demo - not necessarily those who would wish death on the pork eating kaffir zionist scum etc. There is a difference, and Spawn through his own choice decided not to participate. Had he done so (without being OTT) I wouldn't be offended.
 
Chronos-X said:
Right, but it sounds like you were condemning Spawn (I was guilty of this at first) for associating with people who invited him to the demo - not necessarily those who would wish death on the pork eating kaffir zionist scum etc. There is a difference, and Spawn through his own choice decided not to participate. Had he done so (without being OTT) I wouldn't be offended.
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I have merely asked Spawn questions as to whether he associates with such people. I am also curious whether he was asked to attend the rally on Friday, and just whether he is acquainted to any of the charming individuals we saw on that day.

Is this moderate Islam? Being able to say "I don't hold a placard, but I know a man who does"?
 
Chronos-X said:
Only when you counter it with Moderate Racism, I guess :confused:
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?

Is Moderate Racism a new construction we could use for something? Did it exist before you said it?

Besides, being racist isn't a crime. Death threats are. If i knew anyone making death threats they would most likely find themselves grassed.
 
cleanbluesky said:
So do you or do you not associate with people who want you to go to these rallies?
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Just for clarity, what's wrong with going to, or being invited to go to, a rally?

Or are we suggesting that everybody that went to the rally wants death for the infidel?

When using loaded terms such as "these people" and "such people", the inference is that as a group, rally attendees should be condemned. From what I saw, there were several hundred people at a rally, of which a few dozen were carrying offensive placards. I utterly condemn (as it seems does Spawn) the nutters carrying death threat placards, but I DON'T condemn either Spawn or his friends for going to, or being invited to, a rally to express their outrage at what they see as a grossly offensive cartoon. THAT, after all, is merely them expressing their democratic right to protest in a fee society. If hardliners then hijack that rally, it's hardly the fault of those protesting the perceived insult, is it?


Spawn, I'm beginning to see what you mean. I apologise for dragging you back into this.
 
Sequoia said:
If hardliners then hijack that rally, it's hardly the fault of those protesting the perceived insult, is it?
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The rest of the crowd didn't seem too distressed to be associated with the "extremists" - we don't even know that the 'protests' were merely about the cartoons... we know that there was a rally outside the Danish embassy, even though the paper that printed them has already apologised, even though the cartoon was printed months and months ago...
 
Sequoia said:
If hardliners then hijack that rally, it's hardly the fault of those protesting the perceived insult, is it?
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Is that what actually happened? From Spawns post I got the impression that the people that had invited him very reasonably radical which was part fo the reason he refused to go.
 
I've reading about Islam all day today trying to learn more as to why people would take such actions over a comic, I came across this site that I thought was a interesting read - The Trouble with Islam Some of the comments in the letters section make a interesting read.
 
cleanbluesky said:
The rest of the crowd didn't seem too distressed to be associated with the "extremists" - we don't even know that the 'protests' were merely about the cartoons... we know that there was a rally outside the Danish embassy, even though the paper that printed them has already apologised, even though the cartoon was printed months and months ago...
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Indeed, but I'm reluctant, personally, to infer that those not carrying death-threat placards go along with the extremist viewpoint, just because they didn't seem "to distressed". Maybe they genuinely sympathise with that stance, maybe they don't. But it wouldn't be the first time a protest has been hijacked by a well-organised small group with an agenda.

VIRII said:
Is that what actually happened? From Spawns post I got the impression that the people that had invited him very reasonably radical which was part fo the reason he refused to go.
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Dunno, VIRII. Maybe they were radical, maybe not. But, unless I misread the inference, CBS's "WTF - you associate with these people?" remark seemed remarkably suggestive of guilt by association. That type of associative logic I utterly reject. The vast majority of Muslims in this country are no more responsible for 7/7 than I am for the crusades, or for the US/UK war in Iraq.
 
Dingo said:
Zain made the comment in one thread that "the papers love a story", by way of explanation for negative images of muslims to appear in the British papers and that there are never any positive images of muslims in these same papers, but the truth is if there was nothing to report there would be no story......maybe that's why there are no positive images of muslims.....nothing to report!! :(
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Far far faaaaaaaar from the truth matey. There is plenty to report, the media are just unable to make good money/attention from it. If you actually did some fact finding yourself you would see this, a lot of opinions are always based on media only and word of mouth. Try researching and finding things out for yourself. Never trust the media <<< familiar? ^^

Spawn said:
This whole thing is getting ever so boring :o Same old points over and over again.....ho hum....
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Explains why its a dead topic now imo.

Spawn said:
But us expressing our views and condemnation of these death threats are never enough, it never will be because our voices dont sell papers simple as that plus theres too many muslim haters on this forum...judging by some of the comments in here.
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A hater, whether they hate islam or hate a certain food or whatever will never change their view so its a waste of time explaining anything to a hater. I only ever entered the thread to air my views, which ive done. Its pathetic how people expect muslims to say sorry for actions of other muslims, and when they do another comment comes up that shows its not good enough. Like they are animals that should be commanded :/

Spawn said:
Everytime something bad happens ie extremists chop someones head off...you do get muslims who do voice their opinion and express outrage at these events. Take for instance the 9/11 attacks...a lot of muslims voiced outrage. How about a few yrs ago the british fella who was taken hostage in iraq...a few muslim members from the uk went over there to try and reason with these idiots...did it help??...no not really...time and time again we are criticised for not doing anything and when we do...its just not enough is it??. Whats that saying...oh damned if we do damned if we dont...simple as that.
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That further clarifies my point but ignorance/hatred ignores these points.
 
Oh and if the links are still in here they are offensive to some board members - could a don remove them?


*edit* I know I should have used post above, sorry.
 
zain said:
Oh and if the links are still in here they are offensive to some board members - could a don remove them?
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Do you mean the links to the 'offensive cartoons'?
Don't click on them then, there was a program I thought might be offensive about cutting up the human body the other week on C4 but I just didn't watch it, I didn't write in to them & complain about it being aired because some people weren't bothered by it & wanted to watch it:)
 
zain said:
Its pathetic how people expect muslims to say sorry for actions of other muslims, and when they do another comment comes up that shows its not good enough. Like they are animals that should be commanded :/
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I haven't seen any evidence of that, can you actually provide some to back up what you assert?
What has been said and it is a very simple and logical point is that if the moderate muslims do not want to be tarred with the same brush then they need to improve their own self image by actively sorting out the nutters in their midst.
Simply posting "it is not fair, we aren't all like that" is not enough to convince people for ever is it.
How would you suggest that the Union Flag is reclaimed from football hooligans and is no longer seen as a racist symbol?
How do you suggest that English football fans lose the violent thug image that so many have a s aresult of the actions of a few?

It is the same old chestnut and solving it is not a matter of whining about how unfair things are, you have to actively get out there and change opinion via action not whining.
 
cleanbluesky said:
Beansprout that is funny!

Danish Bacon = Free Speech
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All from B3ta - I have quite a collection....will probably post them all in a few days or so :)

Edit: Ah...aw, I was putting the funny stuff in this GD thread (following suit) and leaving the SC thread for the serious stuff....anyhow, in time a separate thread will appear :)
 
anyone got a link to the comics that were published? i want to see what all the fuss is about.

Thanks
 
Mana said:
anyone got a link to the comics that were published? i want to see what all the fuss is about.

Thanks
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There is a link in the thread somewhere but honestly the cartoons are pretty pap.
 
Zombie said:
I think it's important that the West stands up on this issue: if we cave into Muslim demands for self-censorship, our freedom of speech will be taken away forever.
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Here is a link to the cartoons.
 
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