'Anti' Isalm cartoons....
- Thread starter Hodders
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Dingo said:But surely that is just the point isn't it?.....whilst the moderate muslims bemoan being tarred with the same brush as extremists and terrorists and having a lack of voice, and that the extremists do not represent Islam, you sit idly by and allow these people to hijack not only your religion but your lives too.
You have 14 pages of indignation here, and as a moderate muslim, the onus should be on you to get your house in order, to get your arse in gear and smack the naughty children who are having tantrums, and make them behave in a way that IS representative of your faith.....actions speak louder than words.....but what are you and Jamoor and maybe many thousands more moderate "true" representatives of your faith doing.....your'e sitting on your arse and behaving like the three wise monkeys, so it's no wonder the "face of Islam" is seen as ugly and distorted.
You could at least make a difference in this country (impossible to do in the ME in my opinion because of the lack of education) to perceptions of Islam and Muslims....but you won't do it sat on your arse and bitching about how your people are "misunderstood"!, or as so many muslims do, telling us how no-one loves you and how much the Zionists run the World.....it requires effort on your part.
Zain made the comment in one thread that "the papers love a story", by way of explanation for negative images of muslims to appear in the British papers and that there are never any positive images of muslims in these same papers, but the truth is if there was nothing to report there would be no story......maybe that's why there are no positive images of muslims.....nothing to report!!
If something like this is far less important than your personal issues, and you can't see the longer term repercussions that could result if you continue to sit idly by whilst Jihadists and terror groups usurp the true meaning of your Prophets message, then rightly or wrongly you will be an accomplice to their future actions in the eyes of many people.
A denunciation by the MCB in a newspaper without any real action to back it up is like a murderer killing someone and being told not to be a naughty boy and run along home and play.
If you want to be heard and seen as the "true" face of Islam in this country then it is up to you, the moderate muslims, to get off your backsides and get your own house in order so that it reflects what you tell the rest of the population it represents!.
You raise some very salient points, believe me i have tried to change the views of non-muslims i know, about my faith, and to a point i have suceeded.Every one of us decent muslims needs to portray ourselves in the correct manner to serve and example to others, until we do this we are doomed to failure.One thing i will say tho, the media does not help, i have given countless interviews to the observer,times, express since 9/11, not one have my views been aired in the article, always the 'foamed mouthed' fool gets mentioned, nobody wants hear/print/air the moderate views tbh, it doesnt sell papers.
i will ask the posters in this thread, how many muslims do you personally know, who are of fundamentalist nature, probabaly not that many, most are average joe's looking to craft a living etc, use that as an example rather than some mobs you see on tv.Spawn and jamoor are right too, i dont have time to go out and change the world, i have a fairly important job,a house, a family to worry about, and lets not forget football either!
But the pictures do make me despair, not because im deeply offended,but because i could just see what was going to happen, the reactions and actions of both sides, i simply dont agree with the vies of the freedom of speech advocates(fwiw i didnt agree with the jerry springer show or the sikh show a while ago) or the loud mouth muslim muppets, it really is a fuss over nothing.
The cartoons certainly achieved what they set out to do, definately got a reaction!
Soldato
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Mik3 said:
Apology.
Man of Honour
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Thing is we don't really care, we just want everyone to get on.Zildjian said:
It's funny how the twin towers affected the whole world. I mean...it was hardly the first ever attack by terrorist loonies (the IRA, anyone? Centuries of British history?), but OMGITWASAMERICA got the whole thing on the radar. Blahblahblah.
Either the religion is just an excuse for these people, or they actually do believe all the crap they're spouting. Either way it's kinda sad.
And I bet you that if these protests were about anything else we'd be hearing of arrests and so on.
The basic facts are that ideology is bad and people will destroy all others who don't believe in their ideology. Whether it's something to do with religion, ethnicity, hair colour, and so on.
Thats what I don't understand. The violent protestors should be dealt with as they deserve. I wouldn't care if they put them to the sword tbh, but at least respond with violence and stop what is happening throughout the world.
Don't be too sure of that, Spawn.Spawn said:
Bear in mind that a lot more people read threads than post in them. For a start, the single biggest reason I use forums is to get different perspectives that I won't get from my own small circle of friends. Sure, there are people that either won't listen, or won't change their opinion if they do listen, and they typically are the ones that will advocate a point of view most ardently. After all, you generally have to believe in something to argue for it. But that doesn't mean there aren't people watching, reading, taking in both sides and yet not saying very much.
Consider .... I'll generally only comment if I either have expertise to offer, opinion to express or questions to ask. That leaves a lot of time for reading, learning and absorbing. I'm not Muslim, almost certainly never will be, and I certainly don't always agree with what you have to say. But you ARE one of the people I watch out for, because even if I don't always agree with what you say, I'm very interested in much of what it is that you have to say. I can read and learn, even if I don't respond.
Soldato
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wohoo said:
This is the crux. To my knowledge, no Muslim I have met has committed an act of terror. But quite a few adopt the less favourable practices within Islam (such as not making friends with Kufir or anti-jew sentiment) and more importantly almost all I have met seem indifferent to anything negative performed by a Muslim or in the name of Islam.
How many Muslims agree with what the terrorists are tryingto achieve - their political aims? Far too many. Which is why many 'moderate' Muslims are passive, and content to sit back and say "what can we do?"
The problem is that while the actions of extremist Muslims are not favoured by moderates, many moderates do not disagree with the attitudes (not methods) of extremists - so there is little or no political movement against extremists. This also means that there is a lot of moderate support for extremist organisations - yet whenever something really nasty and negative happens from these political aspirations moderates say "nothing to do with me" or "why should I" or "we are treated badly by the press" or "...but given whats happening in Palestine, Iraq - this was ineviatble"...
Yesterday on Sky News was the first time I have seen any Muslim organisation condemn any extremist political event with any genuine sentiment and I can tell you it was a relief to see a Muslim on TV who wasn't sitting there blaming the media, Israel etc. - a simple plea from a Muslim for the protesters to be arrested spoke volumes
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Soldato
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I've now seen the cartoons* along with a whole load of other images here dating from the Middle Ages to today. It seems clear that at least some of the images shown in the Middle East are not from Denmark at all and have been deliberately created to cause maximum offense. The ME authorities really need to get on the news explaining this to their people and to find out where the fakes originate. They must also ensure that diplomatic missions are properly protected. At the moment I genuinely fear what the eventual outcome will be.
*Cartoons do not have to be funny. These aren't supposed to make you laugh but to make you think. If their purpose was to demonstrate that it is dangerous to portray the Prophet, they have certainly achieved it.
*Cartoons do not have to be funny. These aren't supposed to make you laugh but to make you think. If their purpose was to demonstrate that it is dangerous to portray the Prophet, they have certainly achieved it.
Muslims and Islam will be judged by what people see and experience of it.
If we do not see or experience positive and decent aspects of Islam then it is highly unlikely that we are going to be able to believe the "they aren't true muslims" speeches for much longer.
If they are not true muslims then it would be very good for Islamic PR if the true muslims stood up to the lunatic element in their midst and publically shamed them.
I would be much happier if everyone living here got along and had no deep seated bubbling nastiness to vent off.
At the end of the day the only people who will eventually lose out if they don't make themselves heard are the moderate decent muslims. They are the ones who are too silent and they are the ones who are going to suffer because of it. Do not let a fringe element hijack your faith and ruin your chances of living here peacefully. English football suffered terribly because of a fringe element - you are in danger of having the same happen to your faith here.
If we do not see or experience positive and decent aspects of Islam then it is highly unlikely that we are going to be able to believe the "they aren't true muslims" speeches for much longer.
If they are not true muslims then it would be very good for Islamic PR if the true muslims stood up to the lunatic element in their midst and publically shamed them.
I would be much happier if everyone living here got along and had no deep seated bubbling nastiness to vent off.
At the end of the day the only people who will eventually lose out if they don't make themselves heard are the moderate decent muslims. They are the ones who are too silent and they are the ones who are going to suffer because of it. Do not let a fringe element hijack your faith and ruin your chances of living here peacefully. English football suffered terribly because of a fringe element - you are in danger of having the same happen to your faith here.
cleanbluesky said:
Sorry. I will rephrase. Your average Joe is fueled by the media.
loopstah said:On another point I read today that a french and german were arrested at the rallies for handing out copies of the cartoons while the idiots dressed as suicide bombers, chanting death threats and waving inflamatory placards were ignored.
The Government is making it worse TBH. Our Government has spoke out condemning cartoon images of a fictional character, yet no one speaks out about gunmen burning down buildings and issuing death threats, its truly ****ed up.
Not sure if this has been mentioned as I've jumped to the end of the thread (too much to read).
In my opinion, there has been an overreaction to the cartoons. If it's offensive then state so in a law abiding way. Don't wave banners saying to hell with the UK, the UN and Denmark and burining down buildings. Don't ask for the slaying and Killing of people.
Forget about the cartoons, I found it EXTREMELY offensive to see a blokes head cut off whilst he was still alive (remember that!) - now if there was ever a time for the people to go to the streets and demonstrate then that was it. However, typical of the British people we took it in our stride and reacted in a non-extremist way.
In my opinion, there has been an overreaction to the cartoons. If it's offensive then state so in a law abiding way. Don't wave banners saying to hell with the UK, the UN and Denmark and burining down buildings. Don't ask for the slaying and Killing of people.
Forget about the cartoons, I found it EXTREMELY offensive to see a blokes head cut off whilst he was still alive (remember that!) - now if there was ever a time for the people to go to the streets and demonstrate then that was it. However, typical of the British people we took it in our stride and reacted in a non-extremist way.
Mohammed can also be seen here in this episode of South Park
http://www.scientomogy.com/south_park_scientology.php
Very interesting link that someone posted that shows Mohammed through the ages - but why is he always on fire?
http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/
http://www.scientomogy.com/south_park_scientology.php
Very interesting link that someone posted that shows Mohammed through the ages - but why is he always on fire?
http://www.zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/
Sequoia said:
Sorry Sequoia thats how i feel at the moment and because of that i refuse to now give any sort of explanation as to why this is happening. I have always been a moderate muslim, never got into this extremist crap. But i just feel im wasting my time with the majority of people here...in real life its different, i have plenty of non muslim friends who actually can use their god given brains and not just follow the media word for word. Ill just add that its nice to see a few members here who dont just follow the flock but sadly again its the minority in here. As far as im concerned this subject is truly dead in the water for me and i have no interest in it whatsoever
.Mik3 said:
Ummm i think judging by this here thread and the one in SC i can categorically say there are quite a few muslim/islam haters in here and it doesnt take a genius to figure that out
. Thankfully they are now a part of ever increasing ignore list
but like i said it really doesnt bother me if forum members here are hating us muslims, no skin off my nose because simply put i dont know them from jack and they dont know me from jack either. By the way your quite right, seems like a lot of people here are nothing more than media sheep...following the flock ...can anyone say...baaa baaa
Five or six years ago I had absolutely no problem with the religion, but now I think its just being abused and taken over by a load of mental extremists. I know there are some nice Muslims out there! But it really shocked me to see so many people in London and most of Europe on Friday showing so much hatred towards Europe. I admit I now have a completely different view on the religion, and it’s sadly not a good one. I think the genuine Muslims should stand up more and make the world know that most Muslims are infact peaceful! If this doesn't happen this is only going to get worse.
Understood, mate.Spawn said:Sorry Sequoia thats how i feel at the moment and because of that i refuse to now give any sort of explanation as to why this is happening. I have always been a moderate muslim, never got into this extremist crap. But i just feel im wasting my time with the majority of people here...in real life its different, i have plenty of non muslim friends who actually can use their god given brains and not just follow the media word for word. Ill just add that its nice to see a few members here who dont just follow the flock but sadly again its the minority in here. As far as im concerned this subject is truly dead in the water for me and i have no interest in it whatsoever
I must admit, if Christian extremists were going around committing horrible acts (and they certainly have in the past, Crusades anyone), I'd certainly get fed up with being asked to explain their actions all the time. Sooner or later, my reaction would be "how the <bleep> should I know, I'm not one of them".
Soldato
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looks like muslims down there havent got jobs and deal with nonsenses. All these civilization clashes etc scare me loads , i live on the last european christian frontier and looks like we are going to get the first tides of them , again.
Sequoia said:
Thank you mate, im glad you can sort of sympathise with me on this. I have many a time here and in SC explaining the true meaning of islam...not only me but quite a few muslim members as well...most of them have now disappeared because no one is willing to listen to us. So thats why i made that comment that whats the point, when we cant even be heard here...what chance have we got in the real world....not much especially when it comes to the media etc.
Like you just said...how the **** should i know about these extremists, im not one of them
. And yes im getting extremely fed up of the usual suspects making the same stupid ignorant comments as per usual. Just for some of your info, i was actually asked to attend these so called rallies and i refused point blank....reason being is that i have much more pressing matters at hand ie the phone tapping thread...i think that takes much more precedence than this tbh.
Spawn said:
Are you going to report those who asked you to go to your Imam, if not the Police?
FWIW, I sympathise with what you've done to combat the ill-feeling put forward by the usual Forum Racists... as it goes its not just the muslims that don't take much notice of them.