Caporegime
£400 where Nvidia sell at £600, the amount of market share AMD would have to take from Nvidia for that to make sense is never going to happen, the margins on that would be almost none existent.
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Any news on 7800 xt?
- Thread starter WonkyEyezJohnny
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£400 where Nvidia sell at £600, the amount of market share AMD would have to take from Nvidia for that to make sense is never going to happen, the margins on that would be almost none existent.
Or maybe AMD cards more desirable by providing more VRAM as Nvidia for planned obsolescence reasons won't contemplate that. A way give us something without having too discount by 30% vs Nvidia. The thing is, Nvidia could easily change that if they ever feel threatened.
While I feel Humbug's costs calculations in post #802 were a bit too simple (no yield rates - defect rate for 7nm was around 0.07 per cm2 - and 6nm should be cheaper than 7nm as it has less steps and TSMC were keen to get clients to move so now that demand is a lot less it should be more like $6K per 6nm wafer?), what I found the most interesting was the Steam survey thing:
Well, $340m revenue is probably barely enough to cover RDNA3's R&D. AMD may not like it and want to be the high-margin not a budget brand but unless they want to withdraw from the GPU market they need volume. A lot more volume. Which means far better launch prices.
While I feel Humbug's costs calculations in post #802 were a bit too simple (no yield rates - defect rate for 7nm was around 0.07 per cm2 - and 6nm should be cheaper than 7nm as it has less steps and TSMC were keen to get clients to move so now that demand is a lot less it should be more like $6K per 6nm wafer?), what I found the most interesting was the Steam survey thing:
Well, $340m revenue is probably barely enough to cover RDNA3's R&D. AMD may not like it and want to be the high-margin not a budget brand but unless they want to withdraw from the GPU market they need volume. A lot more volume. Which means far better launch prices.
Caporegime
People only want cheaper AMD because they think it brings them cheaper Nvidia, which eventually at a certain point it might because Nvidia might drop the price by 10%, at which point AMD are back to where they started only now with lower margins and less income, its a race to the bottom with Nvidia always winning.
Eventually AMD have to pull out.
Eventually AMD have to pull out.
GPU products cover way more than just graphic cards so R&D costs should really be seen as a whole, yes some extra R&D may need to be done for things like the Nintendo Switch or PS5 but the amount of extra R&D for those semi custom chips pale in comparison to the overall R&D budget.
In terms of revenue they're a lot closer than i think most people realise.
In terms of revenue they're a lot closer than i think most people realise.
Caporegime
Then just make them for consoles, that's where the money is.
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I suspect they don't just do that because consumer Radeon graphic cards (the cards we buy) serve as useful test cases, they can test things like Vega and chiplet based designs on a wider audience and decide if it would be cost effective to use in a future games console.
cry me a river, recent build I did for a friend I went with the 6700xt at £300, Nvidia doesnt come close to matching that
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Caporegime
If the only way you can compete is with 30% lower prices then you cannot compete because then all your competitor needs to do is maintain 10% profit margins long enough to bankrupt your competitor.
There is an agreement between these two even if they have never spoken to eachother about it, its implicit, because people value Nvidia that much more over AMD Nvidia could push AMD out of the market with ease if they wanted to, they don't want to do that so they leave just enough room for AMD to turn a profit while at the same time profiteering themselves.
IMO this is what people need to understand.
Right, but for every one of you there are 10 others who will pay £400 for a 3070 instead.
There is an agreement between these two even if they have never spoken to eachother about it, its implicit, because people value Nvidia that much more over AMD Nvidia could push AMD out of the market with ease if they wanted to, they don't want to do that so they leave just enough room for AMD to turn a profit while at the same time profiteering themselves.
IMO this is what people need to understand.
Right, but for every one of you there are 10 others who will pay £400 for a 3070 instead.
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Your build must have come in at £600ish which is a bargain for a 1440p beast.
way off cost more, itx build nzxt h1 v2 alone is £200 , 2tb + 4tb nvme +32gb ram
he was actually looking at the 4060 which was around £15 cheaper 6700xt at £300 12gb ram and its raster no brainer with UV its using around 140w with slight gain in performance over stock
the 6000 series offers so much value compared to what nvidia has they must have gained something with the price drops
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I agree that -30% for the same performance and comparable feature-set is unrealistic.
However, the current strategy of -5% at launch and then maybe -25% later on is working either.
I don't particularly care for most of Nvidia's features but plenty do. And -5% is far too little to persuade those to switch to AMD. -10% to -20% is not unrealistic. Or maybe -10% from launch with extra VRAM.
Guess we won't have to wait much longer for AMD to reveal the 7800 XT but going from history, they'll launch at far too high price, possibly with some minor glitch, get poor reviews and a few months from now reduce the price down to what they should have launched at.
Pretty sure Sony and Microsoft paid for a lot of the RDNA2 R&D upfront. Just as well as at the time AMD didn't have enough money to do much.
However, the current strategy of -5% at launch and then maybe -25% later on is working either.
I don't particularly care for most of Nvidia's features but plenty do. And -5% is far too little to persuade those to switch to AMD. -10% to -20% is not unrealistic. Or maybe -10% from launch with extra VRAM.
Guess we won't have to wait much longer for AMD to reveal the 7800 XT but going from history, they'll launch at far too high price, possibly with some minor glitch, get poor reviews and a few months from now reduce the price down to what they should have launched at.
Pretty sure Sony and Microsoft paid for a lot of the RDNA2 R&D upfront. Just as well as at the time AMD didn't have enough money to do much.
AMD should just forget about what Nvidia is doing and make solid Gpus at decent prices
Despite RDNA3 not turning out as well as expected AMD have wasted a golden opportunity this gen to really get some momentum going by offering a credible alternative to all the consumers that were fed up with Nvidia’s renaming shenanigans and price hikes but they come in and did exactly the same.
The problem with that is Nvidia cards are currently overpriced by 50% so for AMD come come in 20% cheaper would still mean they are 30% overpriced, AMD should have matched Nvidia’s last gen MSRP pricing.
80 class performance for $700
70ti $600 etc
They would have got plenty of market share then.
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Caporegime
And if Nvidia drop the 4080 to $800? What should AMD do then? Drop to $500?
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They've already got a decent market share, it may not be in PC gaming but if you include consoles the top of my head maths says they've got *something like a 60 million vs Nvidia's 100 million odd.
*from the 5min of google i did PS5 has sold something like 38 million, Xbox X/S 21, so that's roughly 60 million. Whereas Steam has something like 132m users and 74% of them use Nvidia so that's roughly 90m plus a few million Switches.
e: And a lot of those Steam Nvidia users will be using some pretty old GPUs if i had to guess.
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Probably wouldn’t matter much as most people who wanted a GPU would have already got AMD at that point.
Caporegime
I think people would wait for Nvidia to drop prices.
No one is going to wait if AMD came in at $700 for a 7900XTX while a 4080 was sitting at $1200, the deal would be just to good to pass up + most people are just fed up with Nvidia at this point.
Look at how AMD turned around the mindshare with intel on CPUs, more cores for less money, ryzen gave customers HEDT core counts for half the price. Intel slashed the prices of their HEDT CPUs and tried to add more cores to their desktop line up but by then it was to late.
Caporegime
There's no DLSS in CPU's.