Any news on 7800 xt?

[Murphy]

I think you are trying to double dip on generational improvement.

Yes, AMD basically shifted the old stuff down a "tier" in price because they had too many and why would anyone buy a $650 6800XT when new stuff that performs just as well is going to sell for $500?

Dropping the 6800XT's price by as much as they did is effectively generational improvement in performance per dollar.

Complaining that the 7800XT is only offering performance that "has been available at that price for a while..." is basically complaining that they didn't double-up on value improvement this gen.

$500 buys more performance now than it did last gen.

Two years from now, I want $500 to be able to buy another 20-30% improvement. I don't care if they sell left over 7900XTX's for $500 or if they offer something with a new number on the box that gives the performance increase. And I certainly won't complain if they do both.

I expect manufacturers to make my money go faster, I don't care about the names they scribble on the box or the status of "next gen" vs "oh that's old stuff".

Does X amount of money buy more performance now than before. If so, how much more?

For me, 30% seems like good progress. 20% is okay-ish.

Erm, no. I'll assume your prices are in £ as IDK current $ prices.

The 6800 XT is not £650, it's £500. The reason people buy the new stuff is because for that same £500 you get more performance.

No, dropping the price of the 6800 XT by as much as they did is not effectively generational improvement because it should never have cost £650 in the first place, you talk about double dipping but you're trying to have it both ways. You're asking why anyone would buy the 6800 XT at £650 when new stuff that performs just as well is going to sell for £500 but then you go on to say a £500 6800 XT is a generational improvement, you can't compare the £650 MSRP one moment and then the current price of £500 the next.

Two years from now you may want £500 to be able to buy another 20-30% improvement but that's not what you're getting this generation, like i said i don't put much faith in first party data and estimates but as things currently look it seems £500 will get you the same or very similar performance that £500 bought you 2-3 years ago, there is no 20-30% improvement in performance, the £500 7800 XT is going to buy you the same or very similar performance as a £500 6800 XT. That's not an improvement that's stagnation.

Manufacturers are not making your money go faster. X amount of money is not buying you more performance now than before. There has been no 20-30%.

 

[ICDP]

It has never been the norm to compare EOL prices for new prices and you absolutely could not get 6800 XT level performance for £500 3 years ago. The 6800 XT was £620 - £650ish two or three years ago (if we ignore scalping). If the price/perf increase from 6800 XT release MSRP and 7800 XT release MSRP is ~30%, it falls within the low end of a generational improvement. A big if admittedly but it does look like the 7800 XT is a touch faster than a 6800 XT. Though those are AMD cherry picked numbers, so a large pinch of salt needed.

Let's wait and see.

 

[thesnowdog1971]

We'll probably see a 10%-20% performance improvement for the 7800XT compared to the 6800XT once reviewers get their hands on them and start testing. I'm okay with that, but I might end up going balls to the wall and get a 7900XTX next year instead of a 7800XT, I haven't made up my mind yet.

My new rig I'm planning on building in a few months is going to have a 7800X3D CPU, so no matter what GPU I'm going to get, it's going to have a GPU bottleneck.

Or I might split the difference and get a 7900XT.

I've got three months to think about it, so there's no rush in my decision.

 

[Twinz]

Erm, no. I'll assume your prices are in £ as IDK current $ prices.

The 6800 XT is not £650, it's £500.

You are just restating my point. 6800XT performance WAS $650 (last gen), retails for $500 this gen. (NOW)

When I say "this gen", I mean "now", so when you say the "it"s £500" as if you are correcting me, it sounds as if you didn't comprehend what I wrote to begin with.

No, dropping the price of the 6800 XT by as much as they did is not effectively generational improvement because it should never have cost £650 in the first place, you talk about double dipping but you're trying to have it both ways. You're asking why anyone would buy the 6800 XT at £650 when new stuff that performs just as well is going to sell for £500 but then you go on to say a £500 6800 XT is a generational improvement, you can't compare the £650 MSRP one moment and then the current price of £500 the next.

If I don't care how the manufacture makes my money go faster,(which I satated) I certainly can say that dropping the price on last gen is an acceptable way to offer meaningful improvement this gen.

And if you don't think the 6800XT offered a good genererational price/performance improvement, I would like to know what your baseline is.

The $650 6800XT is 30% faster than the $1200 2080Ti and 70% faster than the $700 1080Ti. What, exactly, do you want if that's not good enough?

Two years from now you may want £500 to be able to buy another 20-30% improvement but that's not what you're getting this generation, like i said i don't put much faith in first party data and estimates but as things currently look it seems £500 will get you the same or very similar performance that £500 bought you 2-3 years ago,

AMD did overhype the 7900XTX, so you may end up being right here. For now, I am assuming they have learned from the backlash.

*If* their numbers pan out, this level of performans cost %30 more money last gen. I don't care if they cut prices on old stuff or offer new stuff with a better price/performance ratio than last gen's price/performance launched at ...even better if they do BOTH. (Which you oddly seem to dislike)

there is no 20-30% improvement in performance, the £500 7800 XT is going to buy you the same or very similar performance as a £500 6800 XT. That's not an improvement that's stagnation.

$500 6800XT is happening during THIS GENERATION.

LAST GENERATION it was $650. (Even more if you count crypto/scalping, but I'm not even going to go there)

you seem to be complaing about this gen's improved pricing for a given level of performance on the grounds that it's last gen's tech.

THIS GENERATION, we are able to buy performance that was 30% more expensive LAST GENERATION.

Manufacturers are not making your money go faster. X amount of money is not buying you more performance now than before. There has been no 20-30%.

6800XT-level performance cost ~30% more in 2021 than it does now.

 

[Rik1254]

Do we know the review embargo date? It’s normally the day before launch, but since when has AMD ever stuck to convention?

 

[KompuKare]

It has never been the norm to compare EOL prices for new prices and you absolutely could not get 6800 XT level performance for £500 3 years ago. The 6800 XT was £620 - £650ish two or three years ago (if we ignore scalping). If the price/perf increase from 6800 XT release MSRP and 7800 XT release MSRP is ~30%, it falls within the low end of a generational improvement. A big if admittedly but it does look like the 7800 XT is a touch faster than a 6800 XT. Though those are AMD cherry picked numbers, so a large pinch of salt needed.

Let's wait and see.

I have to say that EOL prices are a mixed thing.
Note that Intel and Nvidia seldom drop prices, but AMD does - very often.

That is great for the buyers, but it does lead to the next gen looking worse value. This 6800 vs 7800 now, or Zen1 EOL firesale prices vs Zen2, or Zen2 vs Zen3, or?

I hope all the negativity surrounding this doesn't lead AMD to no longer reduce things during a products lifetime. Last thing I want is AMD copying another idea which premium brands like Intel or Nvidia do. The ultimate outcome of that kind of thing is to never reduce anything and just landfill any inventory each gen. Well, unless they could predict demand of the current gen nearly 100%, all it take is some minor delay and you either have nothing to sell or have to spin back up etc.. About there is one way they could predict demand and supply but it's not good for us: have a, for example, a 24 month product development cycle but only release every 36 months.

 

[Joxeon]

We'll probably see a 10%-20% performance improvement for the 7800XT compared to the 6800XT once reviewers get their hands on them and start testing

I'd be very surprised if we see above single figures in anything but RT, the 7900GRE with 72 CU's was only around 9% faster than a 6800XT.

 

[GhostDog1981]

You are just restating my point. 6800XT performance WAS $650 (last gen), retails for $500 this gen. (NOW)

When I say "this gen", I mean "now", so when you say the "it"s £500" as if you are correcting me, it sounds as if you didn't comprehend what I wrote to begin with.


If I don't care how the manufacture makes my money go faster,(which I satated) I certainly can say that dropping the price on last gen is an acceptable way to offer meaningful improvement this gen.

And if you don't think the 6800XT offered a good genererational price/performance improvement, I would like to know what your baseline is.

The $650 6800XT is 30% faster than the $1200 2080Ti and 70% faster than the $700 1080Ti. What, exactly, do you want if that's not good enough?


AMD did overhype the 7900XTX, so you may end up being right here. For now, I am assuming they have learned from the backlash.

*If* their numbers pan out, this level of performans cost %30 more money last gen. I don't care if they cut prices on old stuff or offer new stuff with a better price/performance ratio than last gen's price/performance launched at ...even better if they do BOTH. (Which you oddly seem to dislike)


$500 6800XT is happening during THIS GENERATION.

LAST GENERATION it was $650. (Even more if you count crypto/scalping, but I'm not even going to go there)

you seem to be complaing about this gen's improved pricing for a given level of performance on the grounds that it's last gen's tech.

THIS GENERATION, we are able to buy performance that was 30% more expensive LAST GENERATION.




6800XT-level performance cost ~30% more in 2021 than it does now.

Everything you’ve said makes perfect sense just not sure why some on here can’t comprehend the content of your argument.

Basically £170 cheaper than ORIGINAL 6800Xt MSRP at £480 for a 7800XT buys you better RT and 2 Years longer driver support- not sure why the usual suspects have to go on about bad value lol

The above is illustrating good value

 

[GhostDog1981]

Also perhaps graphics technology in general has now slowed down- maybe Moore’s law is dead?

We can’t expect huge generational improvements rather iterative now.

 

[Murphy]

It has never been the norm to compare EOL prices for new prices and you absolutely could not get 6800 XT level performance for £500 3 years ago. The 6800 XT was £620 - £650ish two or three years ago (if we ignore scalping). If the price/perf increase from 6800 XT release MSRP and 7800 XT release MSRP is ~30%, it falls within the low end of a generational improvement. A big if admittedly but it does look like the 7800 XT is a touch faster than a 6800 XT. Though those are AMD cherry picked numbers, so a large pinch of salt needed.

So by that logic a company could release a product with a MSRP of £10,000 and when the prices fall to £100 we can claim that the next product they release with an MSRP of £1,000 is a massive leap in price/performance, yes?

e: That if a manufacture said the MSRP was £10 but you could never buy it for that it would be the best price to performance card to ever exist even though that actual price was £1k and it performed like a potato.

You are just restating my point. 6800XT performance WAS $650 (last gen), retails for $500 this gen. (NOW)

When I say "this gen", I mean "now", so when you say the "it"s £500" as if you are correcting me, it sounds as if you didn't comprehend what I wrote to begin with.

If that's what you mean maybe you should say that instead of "this gen".

Maybe when i said "it(")'s £500" i said that because i was in fact correcting you. Maybe that's because instead of saying now, currently or some other word to describe this moment in time you used a word that delineates something that happened in the past with something that's happening now, something that sets out a distinct difference between a past product.

If I don't care how the manufacture makes my money go faster,(which I satated) I certainly can say that dropping the price on last gen is an acceptable way to offer meaningful improvement this gen.

And if you don't think the 6800XT offered a good genererational price/performance improvement, I would like to know what your baseline is.

The $650 6800XT is 30% faster than the $1200 2080Ti and 70% faster than the $700 1080Ti. What, exactly, do you want if that's not good enough?

No one said you did care.

Also what on earth are you talking about "dropping the price on last gen is an acceptable way to offer meaningful improvement this gen." I was going to respond to the other points you raise but clearly your grasp of what words mean would make that all but an impossibility so I'll leave you to believing that simply lowering the price of a product that was released 2-3 years ago makes a product that's not even been released you to meaningfully improve. I mean by that logic the 7800 XT is the best product ever to be released because i can buy a 4GB RX 480 for £85 but you be you.

 

[Twinz]

6800XT-level of performance was 30% more expensive in 2022 than it is now.

 

[Murphy]

It's no longer 2022, as i implied if we judge today's price/performance on yesteryear price/performance then everything looks amaze-balls, even a £1k potato.

e: E.g a GeForce 256 had a MSRP of $300 but if you could get it to run a modern AAA game today you'd have something like $600 per frame, even £1k potato would offer better cost per frame than that but we wouldn't claim that the potato is a meaningful improvement.

 

[Joxeon]

It has never been the norm to compare EOL prices for new prices and you absolutely could not get 6800 XT level performance for £500 3 years ago. The 6800 XT was £620 - £650ish two or three years ago (if we ignore scalping). If the price/perf increase from 6800 XT release MSRP and 7800 XT release MSRP is ~30%, it falls within the low end of a generational improvement. A big if admittedly but it does look like the 7800 XT is a touch faster than a 6800 XT. Though those are AMD cherry picked numbers, so a large pinch of salt needed.

Let's wait and see.

EOL pricing usually starts when a new replacement has launched though hence the old product has ceased production and is replaced by the new one but the 6800XT has continued to be made and no replacement has been offered until now so the pricing we’ve seen is just the normal pricing of the product for the last year or so.

 

[Twinz]

It's no longer 2022, as i implied if we judge today's price/performance on yesteryear price/performance then everything looks amaze-balls, even a £1k potato.

e: E.g a GeForce 256 had a MSRP of $300 but if you could get it to run a modern AAA game today you'd have something like $600 per frame, even £10k potato would offer better better cost per frame than that but we wouldn't claim that the potato is a meaningful improvement.

That's how progress is measured....by comparing where we were to where we are. The difference between the two is progress, stagnation, or regression.

The fact that the level of performance was 30% more expensive in 2022 than it is today is, well, progress.

 

[GhostDog1981]

It seems there’s nothing any company can do right for some of you here.

No wonder one of them has given up making decently priced GPUs for gamers and the other just allegedly quit the high end next gen.

 

[Murphy]

That's how progress is measured....by comparing where we were to where we are. The difference between the two is progress, stagnation, or regression.

The fact that the level of performance was 30% more expensive in 2022 than it is today is, well, progress.

Who said it wasn't progress? I certainly didn't, i said...

it seems £500 will get you the same or very similar performance that £500 bought you 2-3 years ago, there is no 20-30% improvement in performance, the £500 7800 XT is going to buy you the same or very similar performance as a £500 6800 XT. That's not an improvement that's stagnation.

 

[Joxeon]

The fact that the level of performance was 30% more expensive in 2022 than it is today is, well, progress.

You could say that about any of the Nvidia cards also, a 3080 for example was £800-1000 back in 2022 yet a 4070 is now £550 for similar performance so that’s a 45-80% difference while a 3060ti was £600 and now a 4060ti is 50% cheaper and 10% faster but doesn’t necessarily make the 4070 or 4060ti a great offering.

 

[GhostDog1981]

Who said it wasn't progress? I certainly didn't, i said...

There is an improvement though in RT and 2 WHOLE Further years of driver support over a £500 6800xt. I’d rather get the new stuff (7800xt for same price).

 

[GhostDog1981]

You could say that about any of the Nvidia cards also, a 3080 for example was £800-1000 back in 2022 yet a 4070 is now £550 for similar performance so that’s a 45-80% difference while a 3060ti was £600 and now a 4060ti is 50% cheaper and 10% faster but doesn’t necessarily make the 4070 or 4060ti a great offering.

And the 4070 was recommended by an Australian internet review site as good value so yes it is progress of making an expensive item more attainable for everyone.

 

[Twinz]

2-3 years ago $500 got you a 3070: (assuming you could find one at MSRP)

Now $500 gets you ~25% more performance. While that isn't "take my money" better it's certainly not "similar" as you describe it.