Any religious people watch the Wonders of Life last night?

RDM said:
You can believe what you want, the evidence however says otherwise.
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to be fair that is far from clear and i would say the evidence points more towards an environmental trend rather than a genetic one, although certain genetic traits may increase the environmental influence - its complicated, as you would expect.
not that it matters either way, it is neither a bad or a good thing, its just a thing.
 
Urgannagru said:
Thank-you for your concise reply, just had a quick google (yes not the best of ways to understand the text :P) and yes the commandments are referred to again in the new testment, though not as clearly as as in the OT, how ever Jesus does repeatedly refer to people having to keep to god's law, which him being Jewish I'd of thought he'd be referring to all of the OT. So even if his coming had revoked all the old law wouldn't him saying that people should follow it bring it back into being?

Also if the OT is god's word, all nastiness he carried out must be true whether or not people have to follow the rules stated in it.

Again sorry if I'm taking things out of context I'm not a biblical scholar, I just find it hard to understand how the bible can be taken as god's truth rather than a guide written by man.
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I may have slipped up there in an earlier post. While Jesus's coming fulfilled the OT, the old law is not gotten rid of until Jesus dies on the cross.

It's actually commonly debated but my opinion is that even if you believe Jewish law should be followed, it's near impossible to follow it in this day and age. Also Jesus died for our sins so following that old law will not bring you salvation, salvation is through Jesus.

Yes, God did do all of the things it says in the OT. Something that most Atheists do not understand though is that back in the OT, there is no salvation. Not even Prophets of the OT went to Heaven, they went to Abraham's Bosom which is where iirc everyone went because when Jesus came to offer salvation, he offered it to everyone past,present future.
My point is that if you broke the law you would usually be struck down by God where you stood.

Yea I could tell but it's shocking how most Christians don't even know about the Christian faith. They think going to church every Sunday is all they need to do.
I for one read the Bible and it makes me somewhat skeptica at times as there's Giants, unicorns, huge armies of horsemen in there and I'm just sat there like WTF. I do not let the faith in the cross waiver though even if some stories in their I do doubt.

Hatter The Mad said:
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Looks like you need to step up your 'garbage' filter.
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No need for that, it's mostly a civil thread at the moment XD

I wouldn't believe that something moving on it's own is God. God doesn't perform signs or miracles anymore.
 
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Kamwah said:
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I for one read the Bible and it makes me somewhat skeptica at times as there's Giants, unicorns, huge armies of horsemen in there and I'm just sat there like WTF. I do not let the faith in the cross waiver though even if some stories in their I do doubt.
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So what criteria do you use to cherry pick the parts you fancy believing and the ones you don't?
 
Kamwah said:
I may have slipped up there in an earlier post. While Jesus's coming fulfilled the OT, the old law is not gotten rid of until Jesus dies on the cross.

It's actually commonly debated but my opinion is that even if you believe Jewish law should be followed, it's near impossible to follow it in this day and age. Also Jesus died for our sins so following that old law will not bring you salvation, salvation is through Jesus.

Yes, God did do all of the things it says in the OT. Something that most Atheists do not understand though is that back in the OT, there is no salvation. Not even Prophets of the OT went to Heaven, they went to Abraham's Bosom which is where iirc everyone went because when Jesus came to offer salvation, he offered it to everyone past,present future.
My point is that if you broke the law you would usually be struck down by God where you stood.
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Wow! First time I've had it explained to me like that, thanks for taking the time to reply so clearly. Still doesn't sit right with me, as seems like god has been holding us to a double standard if he's struck out at innocents (by that I mean people how have not yet physically comitted sin rather than had it passed down) yet tells us we can't, and doesn't seem like the actions of either a benevolant or perfect being if he had to change he mind and offer salvation after 1000's of years of brutality.
However I understand that you're not trying to convert me and I know I'm not going to convert you as that defeats the point of religous faith. But thanks again it has definately been some explainations I've not seen before. May I ask what denomination your are?
 
Haggisman said:
So what criteria do you use to cherry pick the parts you fancy believing and the ones you don't?
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I don't cherrypick, I believe in it's teachings.
No idea why you feel the need to be aggressive. Your wording isn't that of someone who wants to discuss, more like argue.

The story about Nephilim is the one that leaves me skeptical the most, it's basically 'Sons of God' and 'Daughters of Men' which ends in offspring of Giants. It's not an uncommonly debated part

Urgannagru said:
Wow! First time I've had it explained to me like that, thanks for taking the time to reply so clearly. Still doesn't sit right with me, as seems like god has been holding us to a double standard if he's struck out at innocents (by that I mean people how have not yet physically comitted sin rather than had it passed down) yet tells us we can't, and doesn't seem like the actions of either a benevolant or perfect being if he had to change he mind and offer salvation after 1000's of years of brutality.
However I understand that you're not trying to convert me and I know I'm not going to convert you as that defeats the point of religous faith. But thanks again it has definately been some explainations I've not seen before. May I ask what denomination your are?
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NP, I'm a Baptist.
 
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haggisman just stop will you. You're making yourself look silly. If you're going to debate the bible at least know everything there is to know before going up against a theist.
 
Kamwah said:
I'm saying it because a religious person cannot believe that their God creates imperfect creations. That is why I'm pointing out that an it's somewhat an Atheist thing to say.
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That would depend on the religion and the interpretation of it. But you are still ascribing things to atheism that are nothing to do with atheism.

Kamwah said:
Also a quick mention to people with birth defects be them physical or mental, I can't remember the exact specifics but God can punish anyone up to 2 generations after you for your sins. I believe that's where they come from and yes it is unfair but it doesn't mean they can't receive salvation.
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Do you honestly believe that people born with physical or mental defects are being punished by God for the sins of their parents? And you think that is a God worthy of worship?


Kamwah said:
Circumcision is a covenant between you and god. Old Jewish law popping up again.
Christians only need the circumcision in your soul and the Holy Ghost/Spirit within.
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So people are deliberately changing God's perfect creation for circumcision but not allowed to do it for tatoos?

Seems somewhat inconsistent dont you think?

Kamwah said:
I'm not of the education to explain to you why people like what they like and most people have a natural attraction to the opposite sex in a scientific way.

I don't think he stacks the odds against anyone, my faith tells me salvation is through the cross and denial leads to damnation. Sin does not send you to the eternal fire.

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Just to add to the thread..

I believe in evolution, I don't believe Science is against God in any way. It's just people trying to understand the law that God has set out.

I also don't believe Adam & Eve were the first beings on this planet, he tells them to replenish and therefore there must have been something before us. IMO Genesis has a few time skips that aren't mentioned.

And I am Pro-choice for abortion. There's reports there was once a plant that could be eaten which could cause an abortion.
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So in short, you aren't really using your faith for an excuse to think homosexuality is wrong, you just don't like it?
 
Kamwah said:
I don't cherrypick, I believe in it's teachings.
No idea why you feel the need to be aggressive. Your wording isn't that of someone who wants to discuss, more like argue.

The story about Nephilim is the one that leaves me skeptical the most, it's basically 'Sons of God' and 'Daughters of Men' which ends in offspring of Giants. It's not an uncommonly debated part.
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It just seems somewhat hypocritical to decide to literally believe certain parts, and be skeptical, or in some cases completely disregard others?

Not directed at you in particular, but it does appear that many theists will quote sections of the Bible to be taken exactly as they're written, but insist that others are "open to interpretation". Conveniently this differentiation always seems to be with the intent of backing up their argument. I'm just wondering what criteria are supposed to be used to decide which is which?

Jason2 said:
haggisman just stop will you. You're making yourself look silly. If you're going to debate the bible at least know everything there is to know before going up against a theist.
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So basically, because you're unable to counter/respond to some of the points I've made, you're now going to ask me to be quiet and go away? :rolleyes:
 
Unable to respond? Don't make me laugh kid. I've gone up in debates against far greater intelligent atheists than you at uni.

Why would I bother debating with a narrow-minded fool like yourself?
 
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I'm also late to this thread but one thing has always confused me

Were adam and eves brains smaller than ours are today? If so, why didn't god just create them the same size?

Archeologists have dug up caveman remains so we know early mans brains were smaller for a fact. If our brains have naturally gotten bigger then modern man isn't how god intended.
 
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RDM said:
That would depend on the religion and the interpretation of it. But you are still ascribing things to atheism that are nothing to do with atheism.



Do you honestly believe that people born with physical or mental defects are being punished by God for the sins of their parents? And you think that is a God worthy of worship?
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Well we're arguing mostly about Abrahamic religions here so I'll go as far as saying I know what Jews,Christians and Muslims believe on that subject of perfect creations.

Yes but it's not the only reason, there's a lot of varying factors involved.

God can punish anyone in the next 2 generations for your sins, it doesn't mean he will and it doesn't say to what degree the punishment is.

RDM said:
So people are deliberately changing God's perfect creation for circumcision but not allowed to do it for tatoos?

Seems somewhat inconsistent dont you think?
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Circumcision is a covenant between you and God, that's what the Jews believe. I don't know what Muslims believe it's for and I don't even care to know.

Christians do not believe in circumcision because when we're saved and receive the Holy Spirit, that is a circumcision of our souls.

RDM said:
So in short, you aren't really using your faith for an excuse to think homosexuality is wrong, you just don't like it?
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I'm saying it's a sin and that's it. We may not have to follow the old law but that doesn't mean God isn't disgusted by it still.
In the Bible, sodomy is the last sin committed before God destroys that nation.

Haggisman said:
It just seems somewhat hypocritical to decide to literally believe certain parts, and be skeptical, or in some cases completely disregard others?

Not directed at you in particular, but it does appear that many theists will quote sections of the Bible to be taken exactly as they're written, but insist that others are "open to interpretation". Conveniently this differentiation always seems to be with the intent of backing up their argument. I'm just wondering what criteria are supposed to be used to decide which is which?
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The bible isn't and never has been for private interpretation. If you're a true Christian the Holy Spirit will help you understand it's meaning.
I don't disregard any parts and the parts I am skeptical in are because as someone living in this day and age, I can find some of the things said to happen as completely alien, that's the wisdom that God knew the Gentiles had. The bible is written in 3rd Grade english (From a US standpoint) so looking too deep into things is usually quite counterproductive.

There is no criteria, the problem is with many denominations and many translations of the bible it's hard for people to decide. I for one follow the King James 1611 Bible and I've done some research and I believe it to be the best translated Bible and that it came from the original source material (There are 3/4 major original source documents that different Bibles are derived from, there are largely the same but some have small things taken out or put in).
 
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Jason2 said:
Unable to respond? Don't make me laugh kid. I've gone up in debates against far greater intelligent atheists than you at uni.

Why would I both debating with a narrow-minded fool like yourself?
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And yet you're still failing to do so ;)

Kamwah said:
The bible isn't and never has been for private interpretation. If you're a true Christian the Holy Spirit will help you understand it's meaning.
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If that's the case then why are there so many interpretations?
 
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Jason2 said:
Unable to respond? Don't make me laugh kid. I've gone up in debates against far greater intelligent atheists than you at uni.

Why would I bother debating with a narrow-minded fool like yourself?
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While I may not agree with them, at least Kamwah and Castiel can give a coherrant argument and give an explaination for their point of view.

Apart from the post regarding abortion, I think I've only seen you spout hate and insults or ignore the point raised all together. In which case you're either troll playing devils advocate for theists or just ignorant of the fact that you are showing your religion in a negative light.

Though to be fair to you, unfortunately theres plenty of people like you in the atheist camp too :(
 
Urgannagru said:
could you clarify whether they believe it is still God's word?
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I can't speak for others but i believe the true author of the Holy Scriptures or the Bible is God, he used man who was inspired by Holy Spirit (God's active force) to write down the text, commandments, law etc.
Urgannagru said:
Exodus 12:29
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This is refering to Pharaoh who was holding God's people captive, he was an arrogant and haughty ruler, he refused to let God's people go free so God warned him of the outcome that would befall pharaoh if he chose to not free God's people. God was fair imho and gave plenty of warning, what befell pharaoh was of his own doing.
 
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