Any religious people watch the Wonders of Life last night?

V-Spec · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:12

Jason2 said:
It takes more faith to be an atheist than a theist. You see, no one has ever witnessed evolution happening. When evolutionists say they have witnessed evolution, what they mean is that they've seen micro-evolution. They certainly have not seen macro-evolution happening. Still, the evolutionists maintain that enough of these small changes and you'll eventually get a new specie. And you want to tell me that doesn't take faith? It's absurd to ever think that random mutations can create new information. How can a process which has no direction or purpose write new information? It can't!

So, evolutionists tell us macro-evolution is happening today, whilst at the same time admitting they can't see it happening. Oh the irony! The reason they can't see it happening is because it simply doesn't happen. New genetic information does not just randomly arise.

Moving on, the second law of thermodynamics proves that organization cannot flow from chaos. Which is what evolutionists claim when species change and become new species. Either the second law of thermodynamics is wrong or evolution is wrong. Which is it?

And finally, how do evolutionists explain the locked chromosome count? One male from one specie and cannot mate with another female from another specie. This proves that man cannot share a common ancestor with the monkeys. Neither can any other specie evolve into another specie.

Evolution is false. Case closed.

If you get your information from youtube then yes, Evolution is false.

d_brennen · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:13

Thermodynamics > Evolution

:confused:

Haggisman · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:15

d_brennen said:
Thermodynamics > Evolution

Yeah I gave up at that point. Obvious troll is obvious :rolleyes:

Jason2 · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:18

Ignore the questions as usual. Keep it up atheists!

In regards to thermodynamics, I referring back to the origin of the universe. Why just talk about evolution? Surely the origin of it all goes hand in hand? You accuse christians of ignoring the ot so why are you ignoring the origin of everything? It's absolutely fundamental that we start at the beginning.

Scrutinize · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:22

Haggisman said:
Yeah I gave up at that point. Obvious troll is obvious

I have heard plenty Christians argue or try to debate in his style over the years.

So I am not sure if he is a troll but I am still waiting to understand his religious background and beliefs.

^^

#edit
And yet again another post without answering some simple questions on denomination and if he is a Christian.

d_brennen · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:23

Wait wait wait Jason2, are you comparing the creation of the universe (macro) with the development of life on Earth (micro)?

Macro and micro have nothing to do with each other, remember?!

V-Spec · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:23

Jason2 said:
Ignore the questions as usual. Keep it up atheists!

You're not asking anything, you're just spouting creationist denial, citing the same BS that people like Kent Hovind spout on youtube.

Ask a question relating to evolution, worthy of an answer and no doubt you'll get one, but by saying things like 'evolution is false case closed' just makes you look like a tool.

Jason2 · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:25

Why are atheists just ignoring? If what I've written is foolishness, then come and raise your own points against mine.

Haggisman · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:25

Jason2, you're a perfect example of why many atheists treat theists with derision, you're close minded, spouting gibberish, and making up "facts" which a) are simply not true and b) are completely irrelevant.

I don't see anyone claiming that evolution is responsible for the origin of the universe, and if you think the two go hand in hand then you really don't understand the concept of evolution at all.

You should consider trying to follow Kamwah's example - making relevant and well structured arguments rather than losing your temper, ignoring points and questions posed to you, and going off on a tangent whenever you're unable to defend yourself...

Jason2 · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:28

You can't argue any of the points I've made Haggisman, and that is why you personally attack me and call me a troll. Nice try pal!

d_brennen · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:29

God is false. Case closed.

AMIDOINGITRIGHT?

Kamwah · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:29

Jason2 said:
Why are atheists just ignoring? If what I've written is foolishness, then come and raise your own points against mine.

You are ignoring questions. At least answer what denomination you are so we can understand your point of view.

Unless you're a troll.

Haggisman said:
Jason2, you're a perfect example of why many atheists treat theists with derision, you're close minded, spouting gibberish, and making up "facts" which a) are simply not true and b) are completely irrelevant.

I don't see anyone claiming that evolution is responsible for the origin of the universe, and if you think the two go hand in hand then you really don't understand the concept of evolution at all.

You should consider trying to follow Kamwah's example - making relevant and well structured arguments rather than losing your temper, ignoring points and questions posed to you, and going off on a tangent whenever you're unable to defend yourself...

I'm willing to admit that's a first. XD

Urgannagru · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:35

Jason2 said:
It takes more faith to be an atheist than a theist. You see, no one has ever witnessed evolution happening. When evolutionists say they have witnessed evolution, what they mean is that they've seen micro-evolution. They certainly have not seen macro-evolution happening. Still, the evolutionists maintain that enough of these small changes and you'll eventually get a new specie. And you want to tell me that doesn't take faith? It's absurd to ever think that random mutations can create new information. How can a process which has no direction or purpose write new information? It can't! .

Yes but when you look at those micro-changes together with how the fossil record shows gradual adaption from one creature to another it looks like a pretty good mechanism. Also again depends on your interpretation of macro and micro off the top of my head I can't think of examples in animals because of the time span it would require for a suitable number of generations. The experiment involving bacteria changing from sugar to citrate (hope I've got that right think theres also been one carried out where they've feer off a form of plastic but please don't me to that) is a pretty damn huge change in the workings of a single celled organism and not merely a change from one colour to another.

Jason2 said:
So, evolutionists tell us macro-evolution is happening today, whilst at the same time admitting they can't see it happening. Oh the irony! The reason they can't see it happening is because it simply doesn't happen. New genetic information does not just randomly arise. .

Whether it is a micro or macro change, its still new genetic information regardless.

Jason2 said:
Moving on, the second law of thermodynamics proves that organization cannot flow from chaos. Which is what evolutionists claim when species change and become new species. Either the second law of thermodynamics is wrong or evolution is wrong. Which is it?.

By second law of thermodynamics I'm guessing your referring to where its worded as "The entropy of a closed system cannot decrease.". This ones easy, life is not a closed system as we take in energy from the sun. Also thers other examples of order from disorder that don't even involve life, for example freezing water becoming crystalline **********, I'm not 100% sure of the mechanism for that of the top of my head but I'm guessing the ordered structure is a lower energy state due to the hydrogen bonds between molecules.

Jason2 said:
And finally, how do evolutionists explain the locked chromosome count? One male from one specie and cannot mate with another female from another specie. This proves that man cannot share a common ancestor with the monkeys. Neither can any other specie evolve into another specie..

Species with different numbers of chromosomes can reproduce, granted most of the time their off spring can't though. I have to admitt I don't know much about this so I'll have to do some research. Theres even a chance science doesn't know but thats the beauy of it, some one will do some research and maybe find an answer. If we write it off as a "god of the gaps", we'll never know.

Brookert · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:38

Kamwah said:
Evolution exists. I disagree it happens as far as cells becoming animals though.

Why? Animals are just lots of cells? We are talking millions and millions of years worth of mutations, if you believe the earth is that old

Jason2 · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:39

Haggisman, I tried debating with the atheists in the previous religious thread, however it just resulted in personal insults when the atheists couldn't argue any of the points theists made.

Going back a few pages in this thread, I made a perfectly acceptable argument on the issue of abortion. This was completely ignored. So why would I continue with people who can't intelligently debate and just resort to insults?

Kamwah · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:41

Urgannagru said:
Species with different numbers of chromosomes can reproduce, granted most of the time their off spring can't though. I have to admitt I don't know much about this so I'll have to do some research. Theres even a chance science doesn't know but thats the beauy of it, some one will do some research and maybe find an answer. If we write it off as a "god of the gaps", we'll never know.

A Asian Leopard Cat can breed with a domestic feline even though they are of different species, the first generation males are always sterile and the 2/3rd are usually sterile.

Past that and females are fine.

Brookert said:
Why? Animals are just lots of cells? We are talking millions and millions of years worth of mutations, if you believe the earth is that old

I just don't think it can happen, I may be wrong but that doesn't effect my faith.

Jason2 said:
Haggisman, I tried debating with the atheists in the previous religious thread, however it just resulted in personal insults when the atheists couldn't argue any of the points theists made.

Going back a few pages in this thread, I made a perfectly acceptable argument on the issue of abortion. This was completely ignored. So why would I continue with people who can't intelligently and just resort to insults?

Another post with ignoring the question asked several times now of what denomination you are.

Are you afraid to answer or are you not involved with a denomination?

Haggisman · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:55

Kamwah said:
I'm willing to admit that's a first. XD

I might not agree with your viewpoint, but at least you're making reasoned arguments backed up with points that actually make sense!

Jason2 said:
You can't argue any of the points I've made Haggisman, and that is why you personally attack me and call me a troll. Nice try pal!

I have. Several times in fact, but you repeatedly choose to ignore my responses, go off on a tangent, then come back to the same point a page later and whinge that no one has responded to you. But lets try it again shall we.

Jason2 said:
It takes more faith to be an atheist than a theist. You see, no one has ever witnessed evolution happening.

Because it takes millions of years. No one witnessed god creating the earth either, but you're convinced it happened.

Jason2 said:
When evolutionists say they have witnessed evolution, what they mean is that they've seen micro-evolution. They certainly have not seen macro-evolution happening.

There is no difference between micro/macro evolution - it's the same thing, just the timescales are different.

Jason2 said:
Still, the evolutionists maintain that enough of these small changes and you'll eventually get a new specie. And you want to tell me that doesn't take faith? It's absurd to ever think that random mutations can create new information.

How can a process which has no direction or purpose write new information? It can't!

If you think that's absurd, then you clearly don't understand randomness. The truth is actually the opposite - given enough time, it's a certainty that randomness will create new information.

And there is a direction - it's not a conscious direction, but it still exists. Random mutations which give a survival advantage give the mutated organism a higher chance of mating and passing it's mutation on to it's offspring.

Jason2 said:
So, evolutionists tell us macro-evolution is happening today, whilst at the same time admitting they can't see it happening.

See above note re: micro/macro.

Jason2 said:
New genetic information does not just randomly arise.

See above note re: randomness

Jason2 said:
Moving on, the second law of thermodynamics proves that organization cannot flow from chaos. Which is what evolutionists claim when species change and become new species. Either the second law of thermodynamics is wrong or evolution is wrong. Which is it?

This makes no sense :confused:

Jason2 said:
And finally, how do evolutionists explain the locked chromosome count? One male from one specie and cannot mate with another female from another specie. This proves that man cannot share a common ancestor with the monkeys. Neither can any other specie evolve into another specie.

Liger anyone?

Urgannagru · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:55

Kamwah said:
There are 4 Kingdoms described in the Bible. Heaven and Earth were together at one point as far as my knowledge goes.

Have to admitt my knowledge of scripture isfailing me I'm just going off http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-Chapter-1/
In this case it make no mention of them being together and if they were it's going to be pretty hard to have a day and night before splitting them up. Another point to raise that god has day an night but doesn't have anything to define them till the 4th day on line 13.
To be honest we're probaly both going to be out of our depth here in scripture (me more than you) as translation plays a huge part, then on top of that theres all the books of the bible that people have decided to get rid of over the years.

The only other point I can raise that having the world created in this way would go against how symmetry works in physics, in regards to things working the same regardless of when and where you carry them out as long as all other factors are the same. While I don't fully understand theses laws I'm inclined to believe we have a decent understanding of them as they have been used to construct things like nuclear power plants so it scares me witless if we've got them wrong

Hatter The Mad · 31 Jan 2013 at 16:59

Kamwah said:
There are 4 Kingdoms described in the Bible. Heaven and Earth were together at one point as far as my knowledge goes.

Hmm.. but how does this reconcile with Hogwarts (etc)?

Kamwah · 31 Jan 2013 at 17:00

Urgannagru said:
Have to admitt my knowledge of scripture isfailing me I'm just going off http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-Chapter-1/
In this case it make no mention of them being together and if they were it's going to be pretty hard to have a day and night before splitting them up. Another point to raise that god has day an night but doesn't have anything to define them till the 4th day on line 13.
To be honest we're probaly both going to be out of our depth here in scripture (me more than you) as translation plays a huge part, then on top of that theres all the books of the bible that people have decided to get rid of over the years.

The only other point I can raise that having the world created in this way would go against how symmetry works in physics, in regards to things working the same regardless of when and where you carry them out as long as all other factors are the same. While I don't fully understand theses laws I'm inclined to believe we have a decent understanding of them as they have been used to construct things like nuclear power plants so it scares me witless if we've got them wrong

I would probably have to ask someone who knew more than myself. If my friend who comes on I'll ask him, he's 20 years my senior and his dad was a pastor so he may be able to answer the Q. I'll reply if the thread hasn't been deserted, deleted or locked.

Haggisman said:
I might not agree with your viewpoint, but at least your making reasoned arguments backed up with points that actually make sense!

You're*

Yeah I went there.

Ligers are for the same reason as I stated above. You can mate when the Genus is the same even if Species is different.

Same reason why Bengal and Savannah cats exist.

Hatter The Mad said:
Hmm.. but how does this reconcile with Hogwarts (etc)?

To talk about such witchcraft is of Satan and evil! Is what some crazy Christians would say and do say to JKRowling.

I just say it's not hurting anyone and is actually some great books. Reading something even if it goes against your faith isn't going to effect you, for example I've read the Quran.