Any religious people watch the Wonders of Life last night?
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If you hold that view strictly though how would you equate that with humans in general considering human life to be more special? i.e. if you heard about an event that killed lots of people it would be more upsetting/terrible than one which killed lots of chickens. If we're just another stage in evolution then what does it matter?
the same process drives us as it does in the micro environment.
we just cant look/gather data over the same number of generations
i do kind of hold that view..in theory but not in practice.. but then i am not 100% atheist
They are the same, one is over a far longer period of time
You are denying the existence of evolution:
I don't care what silly contortions you make in order to pretend that your position isn't ridiculous and I don't care what irrelevant and non-existent distinctions you make to help you do so. Put simply, many micros make a macro. There is no distinction between the two.
Cheers!
Because we're us and chickens aren't us. It's not even limited to different species. An event which killed lots of people somewhere far away feels less upsetting and terrible than one which killed lots of people a hundred miles away, which feels less upsetting and terrible than an event which killed lots of people nearby, which feels less upsetting and terrible than an event which killed some people you know, which feels less upsetting and terrible than an event which killed even a few people and which directly involves you personally (e.g. you were there when it happened or it killed people you love).
Once you get past about a hundred people, it's essentially "some other people who I don't really know". There's some degree of empathy and some degree of upset from higher brain functions, but the deep-rooted primal response is limited to the small group that is "my people", especially if you can't see, hear and smell it happening. Chickens are never "my people".
What you're referring to is speciation. Scientists tend to try to label things accurately on the basis of actual distinctions. "Speciation" is as good as you get in this case, although it's not as clear as it might seem because it's surprisingly difficult to define what a species is.
I agree with the observation as to the degree of separation affecting our emotional response to any tragedies. But surely there must be more reason to it than because we're us? I'm not saying I have the answers but it just feels like there's something more to it...
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That view is at least internally consistent. If someone believes that their god created everything at will as it is now and faked all the evidence for some reason, then it's internally consistent to pore over their holy writings and use those for a creation date. Christian holy writings don't actually contain a creation date, but there's enough writing there to cobble one together if you really want to. It's usually ~6000 years, though, not 4000. ~4000 BC, not 4000 years ago.
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God, as an idea is wonderful, comforting.
Except us as human-beings have intelligence, and when apply an ounce of that to the God idea simply causes too many holes to a point that makes Santa Claus seems plausible. (Yes, I just compared God to Santa Claus....which by the way, both invented by men!)
However, its nice to have faith or believe, it is like hope, hope in uncertainty. It gives people a guide, a direction and the willingness to do good, whether it is from fear of God or the desire to please God, either way if it makes them a better person then so be it.
Except us as human-beings have intelligence, and when apply an ounce of that to the God idea simply causes too many holes to a point that makes Santa Claus seems plausible. (Yes, I just compared God to Santa Claus....which by the way, both invented by men!)
However, its nice to have faith or believe, it is like hope, hope in uncertainty. It gives people a guide, a direction and the willingness to do good, whether it is from fear of God or the desire to please God, either way if it makes them a better person then so be it.
Yes that was my mistake, the couple I'm thinking of say ~4000BC not 4000years as I originally said.
Santa Claus came from St Nicholas who, ironically, was a christian. Comparing that to God is just stupid. There is nothing before the idea of God that would make man dream up a creator. Or as CS lewis said, why would man invent a good and loving creator when there is so much suffering? Man may be fools, but none as foolish as that.
God came about because he revealed himself to the Jews. It is through them that the knowledge of God has gone out to all the world.
God came about because he revealed himself to the Jews. It is through them that the knowledge of God has gone out to all the world.
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That's a nice bedtime story. Just like The Hobbit which Tolkien wrote for his grandchildren as a bedtime story.
You however can't prove who originally wrote THAT particular incident where these bunch of Jews allegedly met god, and can't prove who wrote it all down. You got a name?
I, however, can prove who wrote The Hobbit.
That is the exact problem with many (not all!) people and whatever faith they follow. To them and many observers it is assumed that to do good and help people means pleasing a God so when they die they will go to heaven.
This is wrong.
People who don't follow a faith in their daily lives do good all the time and don't do it to satisfy any God so they have an afterlife in comfort (whether it exists or not doesn't matter here).
This is what it all comes down to, the idea of, as you say, hope. The thought of dying to some is terrifying and hearing that when they die they will simply break back down into the Earth and Universe that they first emerged from and nothing beyond that isn't exactly a pleasant thought.
We know evolution exists, there's historical evidence and active evidence in the microbial world where evolution has been and still is being observed under the microscope.
Things are changing though as time goes on and you only have to look at the history of the World to see this. People are no longer being hung for speaking against religion in the Western World and while change is less obvious in the East, it is happening all the same.
For myself, even though almost everyone around me follows religion of some description and to various levels, I choose the logical path as it is the most sensible way of looking at everything and simply take part in cultural traditions and observe the differences and uniqueness of other people in their own ways.
Sometimes maybe I'm too open minded and accepting of people but one thing I can never take seriously are people who constantly go on and on about atheist this and Christian/Muslim that as if they're on a mission to convert everyone to their personal ideals.
I see people day in and out praying for things to happen around their lives and those prayers never get answered. It takes man get up and do something about the problems in the World today. No God has ever come down to save innocent people from dying in horrible ways. I think if those people were meant to be in heaven then why were they born (created) in the first instance to only suffer and die painfully. That defies any logic and a God above anything else in the Universe or beyond would be the absolute height of logic.
I do have all the respect for faith and the sensible people who follow it because at the same time those who don't follow one have their own way of making sense of everything and that should be acknowledged and respected by everyone mutually but it's clear that certain people following religion are afraid of the changes going on in this age and will do whatever it takes to slow it down.
Another way of looking at it is seeing how modern religions have been created right under our noses, religions that we know are full of nonsense yet have been accepted as actual religions (Scientology). If something like that can exist in the modern age then think about the times before this.
We're humans, we are still evolving and getting smarter with the help of modern science but old habits die hard I guess
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It was nothing but weak arguments which I've heard before.
I'm actually quite sad, because Christian scholars used to be in the forefront of dismissing atheist ideologies in a rational, polite, mature and non arrogant way.
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We came from another place, our ship crashed into the moon, and the survivors managed to land safely on earth there new home. In order to survive they altered the DNA to allow for population growth and the ability to learn so that one day we can control our future and return home.
If only they wrote it down in some sort of disjointed way and then used it to control people over a few thousand years. Then it'd be much better.