Anyone know when do they replace the current line up of AV Receivers?

theone8181 · 18 Sep 2021 at 13:20

aoaaron said:
Having listened to a fair few EQ systems, I think all of Denon and Marantz's EQ (even their higher end offerings) are crap.

Much prefer Dirac et al.

When I had my Denon and Marantz, I actually half the time preferred just time aligning everything and EQing my subs myself with a miniDSP2x4HD and then just ensuring a decent calibrated stereo image from my L&R and calling it a day rather than dealing with XT32 et al.

It just caues such a 'tinny' anaemic sound.

How do you do it yourself? I didn't think there were options on an amp to do it, I did the Dirac is the top one, but ahydessy is meant to be better than the yamaha version.

hornetstinger · 18 Sep 2021 at 20:12

aoaaron said:
Having listened to a fair few EQ systems, I think all of Denon and Marantz's EQ (even their higher end offerings) are crap.

Much prefer Dirac et al.

When I had my Denon and Marantz, I actually half the time preferred just time aligning everything and EQing my subs myself with a miniDSP2x4HD and then just ensuring a decent calibrated stereo image from my L&R and calling it a day rather than dealing with XT32 et al.

It just caues such a 'tinny' anaemic sound.

You can set where EQ applies filters, did you do full range or limited range filtering?

1pudding1 · 18 Sep 2021 at 22:23

theone8181 said:
How do you do it yourself? I didn't think there were options on an amp to do it, I did the Dirac is the top one, but ahydessy is meant to be better than the yamaha version.

He says in the post he used a miniDSP4x2HD to do it. So nothing on the amp was turned on and used in the way of Eq etc.

theone8181 · 19 Sep 2021 at 08:19

1pudding1 said:
He says in the post he used a miniDSP4x2HD to do it. So nothing on the amp was turned on and used in the way of Eq etc.

Sorry I'm going to sound daft, but how are those setti games then applied to the amp :confused:

.

1pudding1 · 19 Sep 2021 at 08:36

A miniDSP goes after a processor in a chain, and before an amp. So processor->miniDSP->amp->speaker or miniDSP->Sub .

So if you wanted to use one to EQ main speakers, you need an external power amp.

aoaaron · 19 Sep 2021 at 11:28

1pudding1 said:
He says in the post he used a miniDSP4x2HD to do it. So nothing on the amp was turned on and used in the way of Eq etc.

So I used the AVR with EQ engaged via Audyssey with a calibrated subwoofer measured via REW and adjusted with miniDSP2x4HD.
Then I can turn off the EQ on the denon but STILL have a calibrated smooth subwoofer response.

The latter sounded better than the former. Basically, no Audyssey claibration on the speakers in my room sounded better than with it on and engaged.

aoaaron · 19 Sep 2021 at 11:30

hornetstinger said:
You can set where EQ applies filters, did you do full range or limited range filtering?

Used the app and played around pretty extensively.
I crossover at 90hz as thats the best in room response for me and my subs as they have a phenomenal response curve from 90 downwards whilst speakers had a few variable nulls around there.

I've used Denon and Marantz for years. I'm pretty well accustomed to them. Their EQ solution in my experience is simply inferior to everyone elses. I find DIRAC absolutely smokes it. I like them for the simplicity and complete package.. loads of decoding formats, lots of features.. but sound quality is not there IMO. Obviously they sound better than any sound bar/TV.. but compared to Arcam, Anthem, Trinnov, Lyngdorf... think they are lacking but then again the other guys are 2-10x the price.

I'm eying up either a Trinnov or a new JVC PJ... sad thing with trinnov is although I see the value in processing, I am not sold on expensive dedicated amplifiers as in A/B testing, I've honestly not heard much of a difference between a solid £500 amp and a £2000 amp.

theone8181 · 19 Sep 2021 at 12:09

aoaaron said:
Used the app and played around pretty extensively.
I crossover at 90hz as thats the best in room response for me and my subs as they have a phenomenal response curve from 90 downwards whilst speakers had a few variable nulls around there.

I've used Denon and Marantz for years. I'm pretty well accustomed to them. Their EQ solution in my experience is simply inferior to everyone elses. I find DIRAC absolutely smokes it. I like them for the simplicity and complete package.. loads of decoding formats, lots of features.. but sound quality is not there IMO. Obviously they sound better than any sound bar/TV.. but compared to Arcam, Anthem, Trinnov, Lyngdorf... think they are lacking but then again the other guys are 2-10x the price.

I'm eying up either a Trinnov or a new JVC PJ... sad thing with trinnov is although I see the value in processing, I am not sold on expensive dedicated amplifiers as in A/B testing, I've honestly not heard much of a difference between a solid £500 amp and a £2000 amp.

Isn't the Dirac normally found on more expensive amps (not denon)?

aoaaron · 19 Sep 2021 at 13:28

theone8181 said:
Isn't the Dirac normally found on more expensive amps (not denon)?

Yup DIRAC is.

Denon and Marantz = Audyssey
Arcam, JBL = DIRAC
Anthem = Arc Genesis
Lyngdorf = Room Perfect
Trinnov = Trinnov EQ

But second hand, a lot of these AVRs/processors are the same-ish price as a Denon or Marantz.. whcih is where things get interesting IMO

hornetstinger · 19 Sep 2021 at 13:59

aoaaron said:
Used the app and played around pretty extensively.
I crossover at 90hz as thats the best in room response for me and my subs as they have a phenomenal response curve from 90 downwards whilst speakers had a few variable nulls around there.

I've used Denon and Marantz for years. I'm pretty well accustomed to them. Their EQ solution in my experience is simply inferior to everyone elses. I find DIRAC absolutely smokes it. I like them for the simplicity and complete package.. loads of decoding formats, lots of features.. but sound quality is not there IMO. Obviously they sound better than any sound bar/TV.. but compared to Arcam, Anthem, Trinnov, Lyngdorf... think they are lacking but then again the other guys are 2-10x the price.

I'm eying up either a Trinnov or a new JVC PJ... sad thing with trinnov is although I see the value in processing, I am not sold on expensive dedicated amplifiers as in A/B testing, I've honestly not heard much of a difference between a solid £500 amp and a £2000 amp.

Ummm you're confusing crossover setting to MultiEQ cut off filter, with the app you can adjust where room correction tops correction, typically 200-300hz is best.

theone8181 · 19 Sep 2021 at 19:27

aoaaron said:
Yup DIRAC is.

Denon and Marantz = Audyssey
Arcam, JBL = DIRAC
Anthem = Arc Genesis
Lyngdorf = Room Perfect
Trinnov = Trinnov EQ

But second hand, a lot of these AVRs/processors are the same-ish price as a Denon or Marantz.. whcih is where things get interesting IMO

Comparing the cost of something brand new to something used is always a bit skewed imo. I guess the lack of warranty and use is what you have to weigh up.

aoaaron · 20 Sep 2021 at 00:14

hornetstinger said:
Ummm you're confusing crossover setting to MultiEQ cut off filter, with the app you can adjust where room correction tops correction, typically 200-300hz is best.

I know this. I just think the correction is not very good. If you're needing room correction to only correct a certain frequency range, its already not very good.

Audyssey for me creates an anaemic tinny sound. I've A/B tested it countless times with myself AND people who are and aren't into audio. I've had it in three rooms and in no room has it been great. I have it in my front room now for a simple stereo setup and its okay.

Measuring via REW, I find its vastly inferior compared to DIRAC for example at controlling bass too. Even with calibration via minidsp, DIRAC manages to further boost my 10hz infrasonic output.. the Denon & Marantz just seems to undo all the hard work I do with the manual calibration so I need to end up disabling it.

As I said, for features D&M are awesdome and reliability. For sound quality - there is better IMO.

aoaaron · 20 Sep 2021 at 00:15

theone8181 said:
Comparing the cost of something brand new to something used is always a bit skewed imo. I guess the lack of warranty and use is what you have to weigh up.

I agree, but when the sound quality benefits are so huge, I think its worth it. Also most good amplifiers from a good dealer will come with 5+ years of warranty so likely whatever you buy will still be covered with them.

I've bought two Epson 9300 projectors for example for LESS than the price of one 9400 and still have years of warranty left on both (and I've used them and gotten £500 worth of bulbs via it).

Currently eying up a JVC N7 used for £6k and sadly I agree with you that a non-transferrable warranty does create a massive headache; so much so I'm contemplating just getting an NZ7 if I choose to upgrade once room treatment is done.

theone8181 · 20 Sep 2021 at 06:12

aoaaron said:
I agree, but when the sound quality benefits are so huge, I think its worth it. Also most good amplifiers from a good dealer will come with 5+ years of warranty so likely whatever you buy will still be covered with them.

I've bought two Epson 9300 projectors for example for LESS than the price of one 9400 and still have years of warranty left on both (and I've used them and gotten £500 worth of bulbs via it).

Currently eying up a JVC N7 used for £6k and sadly I agree with you that a non-transferrable warranty does create a massive headache; so much so I'm contemplating just getting an NZ7 if I choose to upgrade once room treatment is done.

True, you're at the mercy of whatever is for sale when you're looking that's all.