Anyone non-panic buying?

[200sols]

Generally no unfortunately, at least if you consider the UK.
More impact would be from the correct seasonal products being consumed rather than the direct locality. (Because seasonality in effect would limit the consumption range by default)

Most regions in the UK are better suited to limited range of production, so they tend to specialise in them. Cheap and plentiful fuel and water etc somewhat reduced those geographic limitations, expect them to come back more and more.
Plus of course economies of scale come from planting and being able to harvest large quantities in one go.

Most farm shops are in fact outlets for locally produced where its available but the rest just comes from a wholesaler typically.
Volume is key here. They fail most of the volume tests and if they did have enough volume they would cause other supply issues anyway.

Much locally produced is actually grossly inefficiently distributed compared to national retailers.
Its actually really interesting when you dig into the real carbon footprint of food and the assumptions people make.

Eg a small egg producer who may supply some local farm shops can have a higher carbon cost per egg than a national distribution chain that has massive efficiencies of scale.
Eg compare someone who loads up their car boot with a few hundred eggs driving 15-20 miles to supply a few local shops. Vs an HGV that may drive hundreds of miles, but with many tens of thousands of eggs on it.
Thats ignoring all the inefficient supply chain up until that point, all carbon incurring, small scale deliveries of feed, of medicines, of packaging etc.

People were getting a bit confused on the supply chains yesterday.
Most of the supply to the Eu and the the UK and ROI were typically predominantly overland from places like morocco.
As such its not hard to understand why when there is a shortage the closest market that will pay the highest value will be served first. The large UK retailers are typically the lowest payers, and any contracts will have get out clauses for, dun dun dun, weather.
Historically the ROI used the UK as its main import hub to and from the EU. There have been a few more direct ferry routes setup / scaled up, but fundamentally the ROI achieves benefits of scale by being closely linked to the UK.
ANY supply issue to / from the UK, will likely have a knock on effect to the ROI, certainly in the short term.

So you are saying it is supermarket contracts and not brexit. Local greengrocers were well stocked and doing a good trade yesterday as well.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

So you are saying it is supermarket contracts and not brexit. Local greengrocers were well stocked and doing a good trade yesterday as well.

No not really, I am saying people are trying to do exactly what you just did, trying to say its x or y because they simply can't or don't want to understand the complexity.

Brexit has an impact, it has an impact on all our trade. Its a absolutely minor impact in some areas, but a much larger one in other areas. Just like I mentioned the ROI relying on the UK, well the UK at times relies on the EU.
Its simple economics in the supply chain.

Is this predominantly a Brexit issue? No. But to pretend there is no Brexit issue wrapped up in this issue, in many layers, would be equally as wrong.

My suspicion is had we not of left the Eu we would see the same issue, but to a lesser extent.
There are more barriers to seemless trade with the Eu now and as such many companies just CBA to deal with the UK. It limits our options and potential "help outs" (ie say an odd delivery of a truck full of tomatoes originally destined for say Belgium that they now don't need) that could have still happened had we been members.
That sort of fast reaction seemless trade now cannot and does not happen. As I said its too much hastle for many companies and they may instead redirect that truck to Poland in stead of a quick trip across the channel as it can be decided upon and actioned immediately.
Importing to and from the UK from the Eu is now far more planned and far less on the spur of the moment.

 

[VincentHanna]

No not really, I am saying people are trying to do exactly what you just did, trying to say its x or y because they simply can't or don't want to understand the complexity.

Brexit has an impact, it has an impact on all our trade. Its a absolutely minor impact in some areas, but a much larger one in other areas. Just like I mentioned the ROI relying on the UK, well the UK at times relies on the EU.
Its simple economics in the supply chain.

Is this predominantly a Brexit issue? No. But to pretend there is no Brexit issue wrapped up in this issue, in many layers, would be equally as wrong.

My suspicion is had we not of left the Eu we would see the same issue, but to a lesser extent.
There are more barriers to seemless trade with the Eu now and as such many companies just CBA to deal with the UK. It limits our options and potential "help outs" (ie say an odd delivery of a truck full of tomatoes originally destined for say Belgium that they now don't need) that could have still happened had we been members.
That sort of fast reaction seemless trade now cannot and does not happen. As I said its too much hastle for many companies and they may instead redirect that truck to Poland in stead of a quick trip across the channel as it can be decided upon and actioned immediately.
Importing to and from the UK from the Eu is now far more planned and far less on the spur of the moment.

Well said.

And you summed it up perfectly, "we" basically voted to give ourselves less flexibility.

 

[110%]

already debunked in this thread yesterday and providing a source called 'theneweuropean' blaming Brexit just lol

ok I see the posts now. But not in any way debunked.

There is a shortage of tomatoes grown in Spain and Morocco, but no shortages in the supermarkets in the EU, only price rises (except it seems Ireland, probably related to higher transport costs on top of the increased costs probably not making it worthwhile). It's easier for Spanish tomatoes to be delivered within the EU, but also Morocco has pretty obviously favoured the EU market over the UK as it is far larger, hence no shortages.

News from Morocco:
https://en.hespress.com/59094-uk-ne...can-tomato-prices-as-export-ban-persists.html

"In view of the current climate situation, the government has forbidden the shipment of tomatoes, onions, and potatoes to countries in West Africa, according to Morocco Fordex, the country’s agricultural export control agency, and now it seems that the UK joined the list included in the export ban."

 

[110%]

No not really, I am saying people are trying to do exactly what you just did, trying to say its x or y because they simply can't or don't want to understand the complexity.

Brexit has an impact, it has an impact on all our trade. Its a absolutely minor impact in some areas, but a much larger one in other areas. Just like I mentioned the ROI relying on the UK, well the UK at times relies on the EU.
Its simple economics in the supply chain.

Is this predominantly a Brexit issue? No. But to pretend there is no Brexit issue wrapped up in this issue, in many layers, would be equally as wrong.

My suspicion is had we not of left the Eu we would see the same issue, but to a lesser extent.
There are more barriers to seemless trade with the Eu now and as such many companies just CBA to deal with the UK. It limits our options and potential "help outs" (ie say an odd delivery of a truck full of tomatoes originally destined for say Belgium that they now don't need) that could have still happened had we been members.
That sort of fast reaction seemless trade now cannot and does not happen. As I said its too much hastle for many companies and they may instead redirect that truck to Poland in stead of a quick trip across the channel as it can be decided upon and actioned immediately.
Importing to and from the UK from the Eu is now far more planned and far less on the spur of the moment.

You are partly right, but a lot of the tomatoes are now coming from Morocco, which have an EU trade deal and UK trade deal, and they are obviously supplying to the EU (at a higher price) but not to the UK. If the UK was still in the EU they would still be getting supplied, although that might actually have meant shortages in the EU (in addition to Ireland). So another benefit for the EU from Brexit.

 

[n111ck]

Damn those capitalist pig tomato growers preferentially supplying customers who pay more lol.

 

[Uther]

You are partly right, but a lot of the tomatoes are now coming from Morocco, which have an EU trade deal and UK trade deal, and they are obviously supplying to the EU (at a higher price) but not to the UK. If the UK was still in the EU they would still be getting supplied, although that might actually have meant shortages in the EU (in addition to Ireland). So another benefit for the EU from Brexit.

Just interested, what's the tomato supply like in Finland currently?

 

[Kenai]

You are partly right, but a lot of the tomatoes are now coming from Morocco, which have an EU trade deal and UK trade deal, and they are obviously supplying to the EU (at a higher price) but not to the UK. If the UK was still in the EU they would still be getting supplied, although that might actually have meant shortages in the EU (in addition to Ireland). So another benefit for the EU from Brexit.

The question we should be asking, as brexit was sold to us as being able to improve our standing on the world stage and get amazing UK centric deals with everyone, is why has brexit not allowed us to get a preferential supply of these goods? That's the minimum standard it should be delivering for us.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

You are partly right, but a lot of the tomatoes are now coming from Morocco, which have an EU trade deal and UK trade deal, and they are obviously supplying to the EU (at a higher price) but not to the UK. If the UK was still in the EU they would still be getting supplied, although that might actually have meant shortages in the EU (in addition to Ireland). So another benefit for the EU from Brexit.

Trust me I work in the industry, I know whats going on.

Your confusing a trade deal with commercial deals.
Governments sign trade deals, they allow/define limits and tariffs etc. Thats it.
Commercial enterprises sign deals to actually purchase things and as long as they are not illegal (ie restricted by a trade deal) then they happen.

 

[110%]

Just interested, what's the tomato supply like in Finland currently?

No shortages at all, always been a bit expensive though compared to the UK. I'm actually in the Netherlands at the moment, and also no shortages, and prices pretty reasonable (although higher than I remember).

 

[n111ck]

Just interested, what's the tomato supply like in Finland currently?

I heard each tomato is induvidually security tagged to combat drug users stealing them to fund their habit through an illicit black market in rare vegetables (or are they fruit lol).

 

[110%]

Trust me I work in the industry, I know whats going on.

Your confusing a trade deal with commercial deals.
Governments sign trade deals, they allow/define limits and tariffs etc. Thats it.
Commercial enterprises sign deals to actually purchase things and as long as they are not illegal (ie restricted by a trade deal) then they happen.

So if the government bans tomato exports to the UK?
https://en.hespress.com/59094-uk-ne...can-tomato-prices-as-export-ban-persists.html

"In view of the current climate situation, the government has forbidden the shipment of tomatoes, onions, and potatoes to countries in West Africa, according to Morocco Fordex, the country’s agricultural export control agency, and now it seems that the UK joined the list included in the export ban."

 

[n111ck]

The question we should be asking, as brexit was sold to us as being able to improve our standing on the world stage and get amazing UK centric deals with everyone, is why has brexit not allowed us to get a preferential supply of these goods? That's the minimum standard it should be delivering for us.

Do you have any evidence (at all) that morrocan suppliers wouldn't supply us IF we paid EU higher prices?

 

[Uther]

No shortages at all, always been a bit expensive though compared to the UK. I'm actually in the Netherlands at the moment, and also no shortages, and prices pretty reasonable (although higher than I remember).

Interesting. No shortages where I am either at the moment, in the UK.

 

[n111ck]

So if the government bans tomato exports to the UK?
https://en.hespress.com/59094-uk-ne...can-tomato-prices-as-export-ban-persists.html

"In view of the current climate situation, the government has forbidden the shipment of tomatoes, onions, and potatoes to countries in West Africa, according to Morocco Fordex, the country’s agricultural export control agency, and now it seems that the UK joined the list included in the export ban."

Banning sending to food to Africa is not a good look..

 

[Kenai]

Do you have any evidence (at all) that morrocan suppliers wouldn't supply us IF we paid EU higher prices?

Stop answering questions with questions.

Why has brexit not allowed us to get a preferential supply of these goods? That's the minimum standard it should be delivering for us.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

So if the government bans tomato exports to the UK?
https://en.hespress.com/59094-uk-ne...can-tomato-prices-as-export-ban-persists.html

"In view of the current climate situation, the government has forbidden the shipment of tomatoes, onions, and potatoes to countries in West Africa, according to Morocco Fordex, the country’s agricultural export control agency, and now it seems that the UK joined the list included in the export ban."

Thats another thing again. An export restriction. Well written trade agreements would have sought to limit them as much as possible.
Commerical agreements would have to honour government restrictions, although once they are outside the country of course potentially they can end up going elsewhere.

The question we should be asking, as brexit was sold to us as being able to improve our standing on the world stage and get amazing UK centric deals with everyone, is why has brexit not allowed us to get a preferential supply of these goods? That's the minimum standard it should be delivering for us.

Your never going to give preference to a smaller market.
In fact IIRC EU trade deals specifically prohibit another party being able to be given a better trade deal. (they assume the same beneficial position by default I believe if a better deal is signed)

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

I heard each tomato is induvidually security tagged to combat drug users stealing them to fund their habit through an illicit black market in rare vegetables (or are they fruit lol).

Fruit

Typcially fruit grows "on things" and vegetables "are the thing"

Its not a perfect description however.

 

[bris]

Jumping into this at 24 pages but we get what we deserve.

When the problems start the EU will prioritise their their own, we are no longer their own.

Farmers have veg rotten in the fields because we wont pick it, the slobs just want to sit on benefits and the Eastern Europeans are no longer coming in their thousands.

I blame (obviously) the Brexiteers, the "Rule Britannia" brigade who believe we are still some kind of upper class who don't need anyone.

The young ones, like my daughters were devastated by Brexit because they wanted free travel round Europe, one is still travelling in Europe but it is costing her, well me, a small fortune in the red tape we are now wrapped in.

Fun fact, the pensioners (rule Britannia) brigade I was talking about have mostly died off now, they were the ones who pushed it over the edge.

If there was another vote tomorrow it would go the other way, we should be lobbying for another vote tbh.

Not looking to upset any Brexiteers in here because I know you now repent for the huge mistake you made. Just say 3 hail Marys and all is forgiven

 

[inogen]

Stop answering questions with questions.

Why has brexit not allowed us to get a preferential supply of these goods? That's the minimum standard it should be delivering for us.

Yeah, I agree. If it was true that the vaccine rollout was delivered more quickly due to flexibility and emancipation from EU regulation, how come we can't do the same thing with tomatoes?

Or was that just bull****?

Answers carved into a turnip please.