Soldato
There is some truly insane advice in this thread swerving between eating disorders and disordered eating.
Anyone using Wegovy?
- Thread starter Diagro
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Saw some simple math, something like if you prescribe these blockers to half of obese population it would cost twice as much as current health system all together
Soldato
Source? That sounds like total nonsense to me. If we assume 67 million Brits in total, and exclude c17 million kids, that leaves 50 million. c25% of Brits are obese. You're therefore prescribing to 6.25 million people if you limit it to half. Wegovy costs £3,500 per year (as a patient, rather than wholesale). That's £21.9bn per year. NHS England alone spends £155bn a year. That doesn't account for any savings made as a result of reduction in weight related co-morbidities.
I know this isn't Speaker's Corner but you can't just make stuff up.
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Privately Wegovy is £2400 per year. I expect the NHS would get it at half that cost.
Thanks for doing the math
Yea I didn't verify and probably exaggerated the numbers from memory.
The example was used in a talk to underline that it is way cheaper (free) to fix the problem at the root by changing what people eat rather than throw money at it and pretend there is no problem in our diet. And it may have been used in context that at current rate of increase we will have way more obesity in a decade.
Even with your numbers, good luck finding extra 20bn for NHS.
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Soldato
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Wegovy reduces your appetite but doesn't resolve poor eating habits, so it's really important to adjust your balance of foods to make sure you are getting good nutrition and not just eating junk food but less of it. There is a lot of very negative data coming out on people using wegovy for exactly this reason (deteriorating health, deficiencies, weight regain in excess of original when stopping).
You can also get exactly the same effect by just adopting a low or zero carb diet, it cuts out all junk food and improves the nutrient density of what you are eating, raises satiety massively meaning you eat less and can stop snacking.
Also, carbs trigger insulin which is the "store fat" signal, so by lowering insulin production you also promote fat burning.
Once you go low carb it's also possible to beat sugar addiction and form long lasting good habits.
I've been low carb for nearly 2 years, lost over 50kg and this is by far the longest I've stuck to a diet without significant weight gain. No supplements or pills of any kind and I feel amazing, it has enabled me to start taekwondo twice a week plus gym 3-4 times a week.
I started as Keto but am now basically carnivore (about 90%) and I absolutely love my food, I can make carnivore versions of things like pizza and cheesecake so even when I get a really hankering for "junk food" I can redirect to something healthier.
Some days I don't even feel hungry and go 36-48 hours without food at all (which obviously helps with fat loss).
You can also get exactly the same effect by just adopting a low or zero carb diet, it cuts out all junk food and improves the nutrient density of what you are eating, raises satiety massively meaning you eat less and can stop snacking.
Also, carbs trigger insulin which is the "store fat" signal, so by lowering insulin production you also promote fat burning.
Once you go low carb it's also possible to beat sugar addiction and form long lasting good habits.
I've been low carb for nearly 2 years, lost over 50kg and this is by far the longest I've stuck to a diet without significant weight gain. No supplements or pills of any kind and I feel amazing, it has enabled me to start taekwondo twice a week plus gym 3-4 times a week.
I started as Keto but am now basically carnivore (about 90%) and I absolutely love my food, I can make carnivore versions of things like pizza and cheesecake so even when I get a really hankering for "junk food" I can redirect to something healthier.
Some days I don't even feel hungry and go 36-48 hours without food at all (which obviously helps with fat loss).
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Soldato
Thats really good well done.
Soldato
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Sugar (glucose - which all carbs are converted to when consumed) and oxidised seed oils cause inflammation, inflammation causes high blood pressure, if you stop eating things that are converted to glucose or are highly oxidated by eating a low carb high animal fat diet then your blood pressure drops and you no longer need a statin.
According to the biggest heart health study by the British heart foundation, low cholesterol was negatively correlated with all cause mortality.
My blood pressure was 148/110, now it's 122/78 and still dropping.
Soldato
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I've done various bouts of "calorie restriction" - I have to drop below 1500 calories a day to lose weight and even then it's really slow, whilst continuing to eat bread, pasta etc in small amounts. It's absolute hell being hungry all the time and feeling like you are starving yourself without losing any weight and also noticing that you are becoming weaker and can't lift the weights you used to. I even did a long stint of 1000 calories a day, which was truly horrible. Inevitably I give up and start regaining weight.
Now that I'm zero carb (and technically IF because I don't eat breakfast because I'm not hungry in the morning), I can eat 3000 calories a day without gaining weight. I get to the point where I sometimes then do a 36-48 hour fast and I lose 2kg of fat, whilst I'm also increasing the weights I do at the gym.
I'm never hungry, I love the food I eat and my energy levels are through the roof. Having had my blood tests done my testosterone has increased to three times what it was when I was trying to do calorie restriction / Mediterranean diet.
This is much more sustainable and I'm far happier eating this way. It's not even a fad because I'm just eating the diet that humans and predecessors ate for 4.5 million years, and cutting out all the foods which humans invented in the last few hundred years.
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Associate
Can I suggest you follow this Dr on You Tube. He is one of the UK leading Sleep Apnoea. If your local to London as he is based at UCLH near Euston Station - ask your GP to refer you to him. Its a long wait to get to see him but better than the usual approach of CPAP is the only answer.
You tube - Vik Veer
Caporegime
Have you worked out the calorie you eat over the course of a week? This 3000 calories then doing a 48hr fast....that is 1000 calories over the course of 72hrs.
There is this chap call BeardMeatsFood on YouTube, he eats HUGE portions, like 10,000 calories food challenges. 1 video a week, but that is his only video in that week. He is very lean and muscular and "thin". The reason he isn't the size of a house is because he works out the calorie from that massive meal, then for the remaining 6 days, just divide it out and so if his BMR is 2500 cal to remain his weight, then over the course of a week he can eat 17,5000. Meaning a 10,000 cal food challenge leaves him with 7500 for the remaining 6 days. He just averages out the remaining calories for the other 6 days.
I suspect if you average out your calorie intake over a week or month to include fasting etc, and exercising, you are not exceeding the BMR. Otherwise your body breaks the laws of thermodynamics.
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Associate
Not sure you can bring laws of thermodynamics into this - or not this simply. You don't actually "burn" the food to extract 100% of the caloric energy the food contains. Some goes undigested or otherwise excreted...?
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Caporegime
Sure I can, of course I don't expect it to be 100% 1:1 accurate, but to me, if someone says eating 3000 calories of fat is like eating 1000 calories of carbs...that kind of ratio is bonkers and breaks the laws of thermodynamics.
Caporegime
It's absolute nonsense to say that you can't lose weight on one diet unless you eat less than 1500 calories a day, and then to say that you can eat 3000 a day on another diet and still lose weight.
The 36-48 hour fasts and the increased lean muscle mass that leads to a higher BMR is where the difference is made.
Admittedly, Andy's diet sounds a lot healthier and more manageable than just flat out daily caloric restriction, but you can't just pretend you can eat twice as many calories a day.
I'm still sceptical, even with a 2-day fast every week. 3000x5 = 15000, 1500x7 = 10500... Over the course of a month you're talking pretty much 20000 extra calories.
The 36-48 hour fasts and the increased lean muscle mass that leads to a higher BMR is where the difference is made.
Admittedly, Andy's diet sounds a lot healthier and more manageable than just flat out daily caloric restriction, but you can't just pretend you can eat twice as many calories a day.
I'm still sceptical, even with a 2-day fast every week. 3000x5 = 15000, 1500x7 = 10500... Over the course of a month you're talking pretty much 20000 extra calories.
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Soldato
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Humans are not bomb calorimeters, we don't burn "calories", hormones drive chemical processes. Insulin triggers a "store fat" process so your body will do everything it can to reduce BMR in order to store glucose as fat. Protein is thermogenic and requires about 30% of its own caloric content to process, fat requires bile, excess fat is pooped out.
I'm not breaking any laws of thermodynamics as I'm not a closed system, it's basic biology.
The idea that "all calories are equal" is the laughably ridiculous idea that the sugar industry tries to sell to get everyone eating boxed products, but it's provably false.
I'm not breaking any laws of thermodynamics as I'm not a closed system, it's basic biology.
The idea that "all calories are equal" is the laughably ridiculous idea that the sugar industry tries to sell to get everyone eating boxed products, but it's provably false.
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Caporegime
My question is, have you averaged out your calorie intake over the course of a week or month, to include exercise? Or can you?
I am talking about basic physics.
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Soldato
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Yes I have, I "consume" more calories on low carb yet don't gain weight.
Biology beats physics.
Calories is made up nonsense to get everyone to consume carb products, eating a species appropriate diet you don't have to worry about them.
Caporegime
Can you give a rough idea how much cal you eat, how often you fast? Work out how much calories you eat, when you fast, do some division, you will get your answer.
Biology don't beat physics, what are you talking about? They exist in the same universe. You might be poop out some fat, but to suggest you poop out all the fat you don't burn is nonsense. Stop talking about nonsense. Calorie isn't made up nonsense, it is just a unit of energy we use for food. You can call it whatever you want, it is another word for energy. Excess energy goes somewhere if not "burn", another word use for spent, stop arguing the choice of word. The point is your body or diet is nothing special. A unit of energy is a unit of energy. Eat too much, you put on weight.
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Caporegime
Nobody's made that claim, but when you're talking about a difference of 1500 calories a day, it's a bit suspicious.
The way you're talking about it is bordering on those grifters that go on the likes of Joe Rogan and make ridiculous claims for things like the carnivore diet. It's broscience.
I think if you'd actually tracked calorie intake correctly on both diets, it would be much closer than you think over, say, a weekly period. It's great that it's worked for you, but something isn't adding up.
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Soldato
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Yes I have tracked both diets to the exact same method. You obviously fundamentally don't understand the biology at work.
Auto correct, I said provably
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