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Apple M1 CPU

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Plenty of Ryzen laptops that do exactly that, not sure why that doesnt get anywhere near the coverage though?

There's been quite a lot of pro-ryzen coverage in the last few months/years hasn't there?

This is exciting because it's something new - a big mainstream manufacturer betting on something other than x86, and seemingly knocking it out of the park. We've had a few attempts to stray from x86 - the whole tablet market, some chromebooks etc, but this is taking on Intel and x86 dominance right in the face.

(I'm a Ryzen enthusiast too, AMD have been doing great work)
 
Soldato
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I’m not sure there are any Ryzen laptops like that though are there?

I certainly haven’t seen any fanless ryzen laptops and I seriously doubt ryzen laptops will be able to come close matching the cool/quietness of a M1 MBP at full chat.

That said the Ryzen is probably faster at multi core.
 
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Plenty of Ryzen laptops that do exactly that, not sure why that doesnt get anywhere near the coverage though?

I must admit, I have personally not seen any laptops besides these M1s that produces this little heat while keeping top speed without any fans on.

AMD and Intel have big boost speeds to give the short burst speed but produces heat. M1 doesn't have big boost boost speeds afaik, this more of a constant base clock but it stays very very cool. Its like these M1 chips are not pushed to its limit and have been placed at a conservative clock speed to improved thermal and battery performance while keeping very fast.

Nevertheless, its impressive and looking forward to see what M2,M3 will bring.
 
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Soldato
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Plenty of Ryzen laptops that do exactly that, not sure why that doesnt get anywhere near the coverage though?

There's no Ryzen laptop that offers the same level of performance AND is fanless.

Because its the cult of apple?

Because they're just not great laptops. Intel has a monopoly on the high-end Windows laptop market, likely due to contracts with vendors they have to use Intel for a set number of years in those lines, and AMD is either in niche gaming lines or low-end laptops with poor 1080p displays, crappy keyboards and trackpads, and generally low-end product lines.

If Ryzen CPUs were inside Dell XPS laptops, that'd be pretty big news and will get some news coverage. Put it inside niche gaming laptops or boring Inspiron laptops with a 1080p display that isn't even IPS, nobody cares, and they shouldn't.

I looked so hard to find a good AMD laptop this year (Zen 2, high res, good SSD, thunderbolt, what you'd expect from a Dell XPS), and couldn't find any because they don't exist. So I decided not to buy at all.
 
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For extended runs with a demanding workload the M1 in the fanless model will throttle a lot according to a review.
This is hardly surprising as Anandtech measured the SoC consuming over 20w in the Mac Mini.
Way too much for a fanless thin and lite to maintain.
A Zen 2 with a fan and 8 cores will dominate it for extended heavy workloads.

The M1 is excellent but some people are getting very carried away.
I have heard people saying you can get away with much less RAM because Unified and Integrated memory is somehow magical.
For CPU bound workloads that demand loads of fast memory, paging to the SSD will kill performance.
 
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For extended runs with a demanding workload the M1 in the fanless model will throttle a lot according to a review.
This is hardly surprising as Anandtech measured the SoC consuming over 20w in the Mac Mini.
Way too much for a fanless thin and lite to maintain.
A Zen 2 with a fan and 8 cores will dominate it for extended heavy workloads.

You can't compare active and passive results. Either active with active, or passive with passive. There's no passively cooled Intel/AMD laptop that beats the M1 Macbook Air in performance, burst or sustained, single or multithreaded, regardless of thermal throttling which happens on passively cooled Intel/AMD laptops as well.

And yes, once you include actively cooled CPUs, then they do dominate in extended multithreaded workloads. Almost as if that heat has to go somewhere eventually :D

The M1 is excellent but some people are getting very carried away.
I have heard people saying you can get away with much less RAM because Unified and Integrated memory is somehow magical.
For CPU bound workloads that demand loads of fast memory, paging to the SSD will kill performance.

A lot of people misunderstand the RAM point, either saying you can get away with a lot less RAM in any scenario, or dismissing it entirely, saying there's no practical advantage. Both are equally wrong.

It's true that the unified memory is more size efficient versus shared memory, but most CPU or GPU specific workloads don't benefit much from it, the benefits only exist where there's a lot of communication between parts of the SoC (CPU, GPU, neural engine, decoders, etc), and in those cases the benefit can be significant, and yes, you can get away with a lot less RAM. If the data in memory remains busy in one SoC module (e.g. gaming), there's no advantage.

And automatic reference counting (ARC) is significantly more size efficient than garbage collection (by a factor of 3-4x), but not all macOS software use ARC, in fact the majority of non-Apple software don't. But most Apple software use that. Apple forces this on iOS, so they can get away with a lot less RAM easily there. but they don't have that level of control on macOS. This, however, is 100% the case on Intel macs as well, as it's a software feature. Everyone else could also use ARC if they wanted to, but they usually don't because there's a performance hit and putting more RAM is cheaper and more scalable than making faster CPUs. Apple decided to minimise the performance hit in their own CPUs, and save on RAM. Worked well on iOS, but doesn't extend to macOS.

So yeah, more size efficient depending on the workload, but no magic :D
 
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Deleted member 209350

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Deleted member 209350

From what i've seen M1 performance is between the 4700U and the 4800U, but for whatever reason people talk about the M1 as if it completely changes the way laptops are going to function. I can understand the battery life is truly excellent, but in terms of outright performance M1 (macbook pro) vs a 4800U and the M1 still loses despite having its fan.

Either way, its clear to say that AMD and Apple are both doing incredible work, and intel are terrible and are falling behind each year. Really not sure where they can go from here, but I dont care!
 

Deleted member 209350

D

Deleted member 209350

There's no Ryzen laptop that offers the same level of performance AND is fanless.



Because they're just not great laptops. Intel has a monopoly on the high-end Windows laptop market, likely due to contracts with vendors they have to use Intel for a set number of years in those lines, and AMD is either in niche gaming lines or low-end laptops with poor 1080p displays, crappy keyboards and trackpads, and generally low-end product lines.

If Ryzen CPUs were inside Dell XPS laptops, that'd be pretty big news and will get some news coverage. Put it inside niche gaming laptops or boring Inspiron laptops with a 1080p display that isn't even IPS, nobody cares, and they shouldn't.

I looked so hard to find a good AMD laptop this year (Zen 2, high res, good SSD, thunderbolt, what you'd expect from a Dell XPS), and couldn't find any because they don't exist. So I decided not to buy at all.

I get that, but thats because AMD laptops are few and far between, but I suspect that will change a lot in the coming years considering intel's demise!

Also the whole fanless thing isn't as big a deal as people are making out. The performance difference between the macbook air and the macbook pro is actually very minimal, not a big difference at all.
 
Soldato
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From what i've seen M1 performance is between the 4700U and the 4800U, but for whatever reason people talk about the M1 as if it completely changes the way laptops are going to function. I can understand the battery life is truly excellent, but in terms of outright performance M1 (macbook pro) vs a 4800U and the M1 still loses despite having its fan.

Outright multithreaded performance is irrelevant, M1 is the smallest lowest-end Mac SKU, going into cheapest Macs. You're going to see high-end variant with more cores in the coming months.

Either way, its clear to say that AMD and Apple are both doing incredible work, and intel are terrible and are falling behind each year. Really not sure where they can go from here, but I dont care!

I agree. Intel stagnation is why we see what we see. We perceive Apple and AMD's progress as doing incredible only because Intel stagnated and we got used to it. I don't see myself buying anything from Intel for the foreseeable future. I'm sure they'll bounce back eventually but probably are going to have a very difficult few years.

I get that, but thats because AMD laptops are few and far between, but I suspect that will change a lot in the coming years considering intel's demise!

Also the whole fanless thing isn't as big a deal as people are making out. The performance difference between the macbook air and the macbook pro is actually very minimal, not a big difference at all.

I really hope AMD laptops become more mainstream and we see proper high-end laptops like Dell XPS using them.

Being efficient (therefore fanless or very low rpm) is a big thing, and it's not all about battery life either. I always work plugged in, I compile code locally (or even extraction/compression) all the time and always get a loud fan. It's annoying, and if I'm on a call? It's inconvenient for me and others, so I'll have to keep on muting myself and increase volume over the fan noise. I would happily pay a lot of money to get the same performance without the fan noise.
 
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From what i've seen M1 performance is between the 4700U and the 4800U, but for whatever reason people talk about the M1 as if it completely changes the way laptops are going to function. I can understand the battery life is truly excellent, but in terms of outright performance M1 (macbook pro) vs a 4800U and the M1 still loses despite having its fan.

Either way, its clear to say that AMD and Apple are both doing incredible work, and intel are terrible and are falling behind each year. Really not sure where they can go from here, but I dont care!

Don't forget, M1 doesn't have hypertreading and its 4 high and 4 efficient cores when comparing to the 4800u. Not 8 full blow cores with double the threads.
 
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Ryzen 4000 (Zen 2) is incredible at low wattage, but it's not low enough to be fanless. Around 15W or so. However, with the IPC gain of Zen 3, you could probably push that down to 5-10W in a low power chip if they really wanted to. However it's somewhat a waste as fanless imo is just a bad case. A fan spinning at uber low rpm when ramping is near silent and can allow great performance gains. It's nice to have a super thin device I guess, but at this point I don't think any device needs to be thinner than a USB type A port.

So if anything I would like to see Ryzen 5000 (zen 3) mobile chips that can go as low as 8w but have the capability to ramp to 15-25W under a sustained load.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/7-nm-...he-TDP-but-there-s-a-huge-catch.490222.0.html
 
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Maybe, but with what OS. ARM for Windows is trash.

ARM for windows isn't trash. M1 theoretically with some tweaks would also be a windows monster.

The issue with ARM for windows isn't software but the chips themselves.

M1 has been built to physically support x86, meaning not everything has to be translated through software.

Regardless, AMD probably are not using ARM to do this. They have most likely just made low power parts with Zen 3. Theoretically Zen 3 at 5w would still be a decent machine. All about how good they are at parking cores.
 
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ARM for windows isn't trash. M1 theoretically with some tweaks would also be a windows monster.

The issue with ARM for windows isn't software but the chips themselves.

M1 has been built to physically support x86, meaning not everything has to be translated through software.

Regardless, AMD probably are not using ARM to do this. They have most likely just made low power parts with Zen 3. Theoretically Zen 3 at 5w would still be a decent machine. All about how good they are at parking cores.

This is the issue Microsoft will have and had with Qualcomm. Apple now control everything from the ground up, software to hardware. Microsoft cant do that. It would be nice to see a competitive product from Microsoft partnered with AMD (Or any semiconductor for that matter) to bring the heat on Apple, just not sure that it will compete with what Apple are bringing to market and at the rate they are going to be throwing it out.
 
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