Are you proud to be British?

[arctine]

I find this particularly challenging. To be held historically to the sins of our fathers or to be accountable based on anothers actions I find grossly unfair.

You’re only accountable if those past sins repeat and you either contribute or do nothing to try and stop them.

To feel shame is not necessarily to admit responsibility. It is to acknowledge mistakes made by a group you belong to whether present or historical.

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

It could certainly be worse. It's easy to complain about the state of things but in terms of the time period and location I was born I'm incredibly lucky, luckier still to be born to loving parents, free of disease, poverty etc. Am I proud to be English? Hmm well as others have said, it's not in my control so seems an odd way to phrase it. I certainly don't like the way our government acts, wars we seem to be involved with but that's another story.

London 2012 was pretty cool for the feeling of togetherness and national identity but things feel like they've gone downhill since then.

 

[darkgen]

You’re only accountable if those past sins repeat and you either contribute or do nothing to try and stop them.

Ok, that's slightly different. I would agree, to repeat an action based on a previous deed where knowingly causing distress or harm upon another, group or agency.

To feel shame is not necessarily to admit responsibility. It is to acknowledge mistakes made by a group you belong to whether present or historical.

I would consider that act shameful and would speak out against it I do not think I would feel shame for the act itself unless I had committed or sponsored it.

 

[arctine]

Ok, that's slightly different. I would agree, to repeat an action based on a previous deed where knowingly causing distress or harm upon another, group or agency.

I would consider that act shameful and would speak out against it I do not think I would feel shame for the act itself unless I had committed or sponsored it.

Well then I’ll presume you also don’t feel pride for the achievements of other members of your group.

That’s fine. I understand why for many, group identity is so unimportant they lack pride and shame for it. Though in my opinion, I think you’re missing out

Opinion aside, it’s only worrying when people think group identity is more important than individual identity. Placing importance in only individual identity is not bad at all.

 

[Bassmansam]

Yep, that's exactly how I look at it. I'm lucky to be born in a relatively wealthy country. I'm instantly better off than most people born in North Korea or The Congo.



No idea.

Me sitting in a pub watching TV 'showing support' has no bearing on the players performance, so how can I feel proud about them winning? I'd be proud if it was my son in the team, because I've had a significant impact on his life, but that's about as far as my pride would go.

Same with Olympics. Some random person I've never met winning a gold medal is a great personal achievement for them, but nothing for me to feel proud of as it's not my achievement.

Yeah its something i have struggled since i was around 25(29 now)i think. Before that i used to get happy/ when England won. These days i really don’t care and i find it funny how so many people get emotional about it all..

 

[Suicidal Ferret]

Not for a long time.

 

[arctine]

Yeah its something i have struggled since i was around 25(29 now)i think. Before that i used to get happy/ when England won. These days i really don’t care and i find it funny how so many people get emotional about it all..

In regards to sporting events where the competition is literally between national groups, it’s easy to understand why people support the group they belong to.

You might feel pride for a family member or friend who achieves something toward which you contributed very little or nothing at all. That is the exact same model of pride people use for when supporting their country. Family and nation are two different groups, the only thing different is the degree of separation between members.

I think it’s easy to understand why people support their nation. It’s also easy to understand why people might not.

Again, danger only appears when people place group identity higher in importance than individual identity.

 

[Adnams Drinker]

"I love my country ... but I'm ashamed of my Government"

 

[darkgen]

Well then I’ll presume you also don’t feel pride for the achievements of other members of your group.

That’s fine. I understand why for many, group identity is so unimportant they lack pride and shame for it. Though in my opinion, I think you’re missing out

Opinion aside, it’s only worrying when people think group identity is more important than individual identity.

I think you’re right, I’m sure I miss quite a lot. My lack of group identity or identities and any subscription thereof presumably places me at the periphery of today’s societal thinking. I’m still part of it, even if I’m no longer the meat.

 

[bobuk]

No

 

[Nasher]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-44142843

Article on BBC news today. Fairly predictable I would say but none the less interesting, specifically about London.

Because most of London ISN'T British

It doesn't represent the rest of England any more and it's mayor shouldn't have such a loud voice in English/British politics really. Even living just 100m from London, visiting it is like driving in to a different country.

 

[flea.rider]

my my ... if the powers that be want it there will be no such thing as british ... or American or Austrian jewish ..
get rid of all that and one world power becomes easy get millions of refugees to poor into other countrys to dilute them it's easyer still
it's happening world wide open your eyes ....

 

[GGizmo]

I'm proud to be English.

I think most people aren't proud to be English or British because of the constant propaganda and always putting a negative spin on everything.

 

[LOAM]

"I love my country ... but I'm ashamed of my Government"

This is me really although I love it less and less. We are seriously considering leaving as soon as is practical, although that's probably 20 years away at least.

 

[Roar87]

That BBC video was hilarious, quellé surprisé that those people didn't feel pride, most of them probably don't even consider themselves to be British, they just live here and have a British passport.

 

[Raumarik]

Historically the culture of the British Isles has changed to suit the latest invader e.g. Anglo Saxons, Romans, Danes, Normans. All I see is the latest change which is happening more to a lack of us expecting people to integrate and accept part of our culture and more of them sticking to their own and living in silos separate from the rest or trying to impose imported ideas and values on wider society - which is always a bad thing when it's imposed IMHO.

It's not surprisingly that fewer people living here feel connected to each other and the country as a whole when increasing numbers don't bother to try to connect because they can segregate themselves comfortably without doing so. Our OAPs essentially do the same in Spain!

I'll leave the debate at that.. as there's a lot of different conversations going on.

 

[Adnams Drinker]

I'm proud to be English.

I think most people aren't proud to be English or British because of the constant propaganda and always putting a negative spin on everything.

Let’s be honest, it’s mainly those of a left-wing, Guardian-reading bent and their infestation of schools, workplaces and politics who would have us believe that being English - and even more heinously, English and white - is something to be ashamed of. The very fact that it gets up the nose of these guilt-ridden clowns is one reason why I’ll always loudly admit I’m English and proud of it.

 

[VincentHanna]

Because most of London ISN'T British

It doesn't represent the rest of England any more and it's mayor shouldn't have such a loud voice in English/British politics really. Even living just 100m from London, visiting it is like driving in to a different country.

Did you have any problems with the mayor having a loud voice in English/British politics when he was a bumblig fool heading up the Brexit campaign?

Or was it just since the latest mayor who is a Muslim?

 

[Puzzled]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-44142843

Article on BBC news today. Fairly predictable I would say but none the less interesting, specifically about London.

I'd say the more worrying stat from that article is the levels of pessimism, if over half the country thinks our best days are behind us then it's no wonder productivity is down.

As to the question, never really identified as English always put British on forms. Partly as I don't really see England as being separate in the same way as some Welsh / Scots do and partly as the reputation of the English flag is usually being spoiled by undesirables.

Union Jack is the best flag anyway, more colourful

 

[Tefal]

I'd say the more worrying stat from that article is the levels of pessimism, if over half the country thinks our best days are behind us then it's no wonder productivity is down.

As to the question, never really identified as English always put British on forms. Partly as I don't really see England as being separate in the same way as some Welsh / Scots do and partly as the reputation of the English flag is usually being spoiled by undesirables.

Union Jack is the best flag anyway, more colourful

I'm Welsh and I always put British too.



And it's the union flag sir! It's only a jack on the jack staff!

Edit actually I am wrong the jack staff and the tradition of naming flags jacks when they are on ships is because of the union jack


Haha pretty funny we talk ourselves down by saying its only a jack at sea (as all flags are) when our flag was so ubiquitous on warships that all flags became knows as Jack's at sea.