Are you proud to be British?

Not remotely similar, how many ex pats living on the Costa del Sol have been given free housing, free education for their kids and are on benefits?

Brits ruin other countries with their refusal to integrate in their little England zones and immigrants ruin parts of the UK. Entirely comparable.

Feel free to produce government statistics on how much immigrants cost us.
 
Brits ruin other countries with their refusal to integrate in their little England zones and immigrants ruin parts of the UK. Entirely comparable.

Feel free to produce government statistics on how much immigrants cost us.

Would be interesting to see a comparison in costs.

Elderly = higher health care costs (although this claimed back), not working but probably higher disposable income.

Young = cheap healthcare costs for most, working (increased productivity) but may have children and likely to send majority of money to home country unless they have long term plans but then you have state pensions, healthcare etc etc

I doubt there's much in it tbh, I'm sure the Spaniards will still take our pensioners money with open arms and we'll still welcome cheap productive workers after the whole brexit thing.
 
I'm not sure that I understand your post fully.

Are you suggesting that the upper classes are made up of a left-wing majority and that these then look-down on the middle or working classes or have I misunderstood? Happy to be corrected.

This is just my thoughts on the subject.

I think the upper classes have been detached from the common people for probably a couple of hundred years. But in recent years, when money for some as become easier to come by with certain jobs, we now have a middle class that some of them aspire to be upper class. They think money buys them class. In this country you are born in to a class, even if you become a billionaire you wouldn't be treated as upper class. But it doesn't stop those people trying. They are social climbers in the extreme.

Sometimes in life we are either born, or find ourselves, in a situation that though we allied to, are socially tricky. The easy thing is just to jump ship and tell them off. The harder path is to try and understand the situation and contribute in a positive way. As we see on the twitters, youtubes etc, most people haven't chose the harder path and instead encourage demonization for sections of the community that they don't agree with.

I would even so as far as to say that the upper middle classes find it easier to speak out about racism, and other discriminations, rather than face up to what they did to other 'lower class' white people.

As a disabled person the only people who have ever discriminated against me have been white people who think they are better than me. I've never had that attitude from other races. Now, if I was a left-wing middle class social climber it would be easy for me to go on a virtue signalling rant. But no, I fight for the common people, the disabled people and anyone else who is a genuine underdog, which is imho, the British way.
 
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Brits ruin other countries with their refusal to integrate in their little England zones and immigrants ruin parts of the UK. Entirely comparable.

Feel free to produce government statistics on how much immigrants cost us.


Do the little England zones become no go zones for locals or police or hot beds of crime?

Or do they basicaly just become retirement centres?
 
Brits ruin other countries with their refusal to integrate in their little England zones and immigrants ruin parts of the UK. Entirely comparable.

Feel free to produce government statistics on how much immigrants cost us.

It's just honestly laughable, you're comparing English millionaires (or not far off) moving to Spain and spending loads of money at local businesses and using local services, with immigration from 2nd world countries to the UK. I'd also suggest that most people who move to Spain actually do learn Spanish and probably already know it since they'll have been going on holiday there for the past 30 years.
 
It's just honestly laughable, you're comparing English millionaires (or not far off) moving to Spain and spending loads of money at local businesses and using local services, with immigration from 2nd world countries to the UK. I'd also suggest that most people who move to Spain actually do learn Spanish and probably already know it since they'll have been going on holiday there for the past 30 years.

I'm just generalising like most of the foreign haters in the thread. Comparison works fine, have you ever been to the hell holes in Spain the English have ruined, there are many.
 
It's just honestly laughable, you're comparing English millionaires (or not far off) moving to Spain and spending loads of money at local businesses and using local services, with immigration from 2nd world countries to the UK. I'd also suggest that most people who move to Spain actually do learn Spanish and probably already know it since they'll have been going on holiday there for the past 30 years.

I'm wondering where you get the idea from that all British pensioners choosing to move to Spain are loaded. I have a suspicion that it's a misguided assumption.

"It is often assumed that British people who retire to Spain are wealthy and spend their days sipping cocktails on the verandas of their luxury villas. While this is true for a small number, the vast majority are not wealthy. Instead they moved to Spain to make their limited retirement income go further because of the lower cost of living."
Will Brexit force British retirees to return from Spain? - open.edu
 
I'm wondering where you get the idea from that all British pensioners choosing to move to Spain are loaded. I have a suspicion that it's a misguided assumption.

"It is often assumed that British people who retire to Spain are wealthy and spend their days sipping cocktails on the verandas of their luxury villas. While this is true for a small number, the vast majority are not wealthy. Instead they moved to Spain to make their limited retirement income go further because of the lower cost of living."
Will Brexit force British retirees to return from Spain? - open.edu

Is there some sort of downside for the locals having age 55+ Brits living there and spending money that I'm unaware of? I'd imagine the locals are quite welcoming? My girlfriends parents recently retired to Crete, the locals couldn't be nicer, they're welcomed with open arms and made to feel part of the community.
 
Is there some sort of downside for the locals having age 55+ Brits living there and spending money that I'm unaware of? I'd imagine the locals are quite welcoming? My girlfriends parents recently retired to Crete, the locals couldn't be nicer, they're welcomed with open arms and made to feel part of the community.
I'm not commenting on the pros and cons of having British expats inhabiting large areas of a foreign country. Merely pointing out that the idea they're all stinking rich is incorrect.
 
I'm just generalising like most of the foreign haters in the thread. Comparison works fine, have you ever been to the hell holes in Spain the English have ruined, there are many.

I've seen Benidorm on TV before, I'm not sure what it was like before (or what it is like in the flesh, it looks like Glasgow-upon-sea or something) but it seems like some of these areas have been built up pretty much to cater partly for Brit/Irish/German low income holiday makers. The presence of "British pubs" and whatever else has been built up to cater for both UK retirees and holiday makers likely generates significant income for the Spanish. Given the already high unemployment rate (especially among Spanish youth) then it is perhaps better for them that the immigrants and visitors to their country from the UK, Ireland etc.. come with an income already. sure someone mentioned healthcare costs earlier but those perhaps pale in significance compared to a large cash injection from buying up a property and general spending over several years of living there.

On the other hand when I've been on holiday to Spain the places I've been to haven't been overrun with Brits (aside from a couple of trips to the Canary Islands many years ago) - Almeria last year certainly wasn't.
 
No. What is there to be proud of?
Plenty really. This nation has done a lot of good things.

I'm not proud of what our society as a whole is today but as regards our legacy and what the best of us are doing right now, definitely.

Cast aside the chavs, freeloaders and scummers and you're left with some very talented people who are making the world a better place both culturally and academically. Unfortunately all the idiots are the ones reproducing most prolifically.
 
Plenty really. This nation has done a lot of good things.

I'm not proud of what our society as a whole is today but as regards our legacy and what the best of us are doing right now, definitely.

Cast aside the chavs, freeloaders and scummers and you're left with some very talented people who are making the world a better place both culturally and academically. Unfortunately all the idiots are the ones reproducing most prolifically.

That's the point though, how can I be proud of what England has become? We're essentially a floating office block these days after it's choice to depart from the EU. Nothing in my 30 years has made me proud. Actually, that's a lie, we hosted an amazing Olympics.
 
That's the point though, how can I be proud of what England has become? We're essentially a floating office block these days after it's choice to depart from the EU. Nothing in my 30 years has made me proud. Actually, that's a lie, we hosted an amazing Olympics.
That's a bit dramatic, be honest. No-one knows really. I have this discussion a lot with workmates. Departing from the EU is being seen as an idiot move but in the end it could be a master stroke. No-one can fix their economies with common interest rates and currency when economies are so disparate - Italy and Greece are pretty much screwed with the Euro. They could extricate and fix themselves or on the other hand it could be a complete disaster and bring about the end of Western prosperity resulting in global dominance by China and the US.

Get back to a trading block but only with free movement of workers with confirmed jobs IMO. Job done.

Pretending to know how this will all pan out is a bit Mystic Meg if we're completely frank with ourselves. I'm choosing to just live my life and give less than a ****.
 
That's a bit dramatic, be honest. No-one knows really. I have this discussion a lot with workmates. Departing from the EU is being seen as an idiot move but in the end it could be a master stroke. No-one can fix their economies with common interest rates and currency when economies are so disparate - Italy and Greece are pretty much screwed with the Euro. They could extricate and fix themselves or on the other hand it could be a complete disaster and bring about the end of Western prosperity resulting in dominance by China and the US.

Pretending to know how this will all pan out is a bit Mystic Meg if we're completely frank with ourselves. I'm choosing to just live my life and give less than a ****.

A little dramatic yes, it's my persona on the forum so to be expected lol.

And don't forget to factor in our huge debt with the EU... Which we can't pay of. That debt adds onto the UK's economy, further more, price increases of produce and such coming in from the EU due to the departure add in even further stress to our economy as salaries are not inflating enough to match cost of living. Lending has plummeted as a result putting even more pressure on the already fragile economy.

I don't want to get into this debate as there is a thread already on it, but am I proud of such a stupid choice made by the nations older demograph? No, not at all. As a young person (ish) I've now got a citizenship to a sinking island of which I've bailed and I highly doubt I'll be returning to. All because some bitter old fools wanted something they didn't understand.
 
A little dramatic yes, it's my persona on the forum so to be expected lol.

And don't forget to factor in our huge debt with the EU... Which we can't pay of.

What debt is that apart from commitment to the EU budget cycle and long term commitments like pensions?

This whole EU debate is really doing my head in because it's divided everyone so much and comes up every 5 minutes. I just hope we can get back to a unified position sometime soon because this has to be the most poisonous thing that's hit British society in an age. We can normally find common ground but the past few years has seen that disappear in my experience. WTF.

Back on topic, sorry!
 
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