Armed gang violence. What's going on in Liverpool?

Robbo said:
Given what they are accused of - running around Liverpool discharging weapons indiscriminately, the murder of a child and attempted murder of another man, surely they would be remanded in custody? Or they can at least request an extension to question them further?

Unless they are confident the shooter is the man who has now returned to prison for breaching his licence terms.
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Do you think that after a while they might get bored of saying no comment and say okay its a fair cop? Without evidence they cant keep them.
 
Robbo said:
That's kind of my point - they have no evidence. Disappointing.
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A lot of the time they arrest them so they can gather evidence or search their residences so I assume that is what happened. Im sure they will be back.

There was a case on 24hours in police custody were they knew who had killed someone they just couldnt prove it because they didnt have enough evidence and their phones showed them to all be at a gym. Then they found some film of them in a cafe all handing their phones to someone who was then tracked to the gym. Or something like that.
 
Chris Wilson said:
What do you think should be done to thes drug runners coming up through the ranks?
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I've no idea and neither have you or anyone else on this forum. Unless you've been in that life you've no idea what its like or what is the best thing to do. Just throwing them in jail is pointless, you're just kicking the can down the road for it to come back probably worse in a few years. The war on drugs was lost decades ago, until we admit that its all pointless.
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
I've no idea and neither have you or anyone else on this forum. Unless you've been in that life you've no idea what its like or what is the best thing to do. Just throwing them in jail is pointless, you're just kicking the can down the road for it to come back probably worse in a few years. The war on drugs was lost decades ago, until we admit that its all pointless.
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Sounds like you think Class A drugs should be legalised and have our inner cities look like parts of Philadelphia? We're importing unskilled foreign labour as it is, just imagine the state of the place when we have not only the bone idle but the newly government approved druggies slumped around the country, draining what's left of our work ethic even further...
 
Werewolf said:
The last time something like this happened the guy with a gun got something like 32 years as the minimum sentence (that's after any "discount" for say a guilty plea), realistically that guy wasn't getting out for 40 odd years.
the guys who held the guns got something like 10 years minimum and pretty much everyone even remoting involved got at least 5-10 years as the minimum sentence.
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Who was it/what case was this out of interest?
 
Chris Wilson said:
Sounds like you think Class A drugs should be legalised and have our inner cities look like parts of Philadelphia? We're importing unskilled foreign labour as it is, just imagine the state of the place when we have not only the bone idle but the newly government approved druggies slumped around the country, draining what's left of our work ethic even further...
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mods we really need a yawn smilies
 
Colonel_Klinck said:
mods we really need a yawn smilies
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It was a solid CW post. Slipped in a dig about immigrants as well railing against any progressive measures, in this case related to "drugs". Just because prohibition and the war on drugs has throughout history proved to be an abject and costly failure, doesn't mean that we shouldn't keep banging our head against that wall to keep the right wing frothers happy.
 
dowie said:
Who was it/what case was this out of interest?
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IIRC about ten years ago, tried to do a drive by at a takeawa, missed the intended target and killed an unrelated 15yo girl from memory. I believe the police got the shooter and pretty much everyone that had been involved in anything to do with the gun and they all got quite hefty sentences, including someone who "only" held onto the gun when it wasn't in use and was under 18 at the time.

I can't seem to recreate the search term i used last time, but it was in something like 09-12 (I think I got the info from a mix of several of the better news sources).
 
Werewolf said:
IIRC about ten years ago, tried to do a drive by at a takeawa, missed the intended target and killed an unrelated 15yo girl from memory. I believe the police got the shooter and pretty much everyone that had been involved in anything to do with the gun and they all got quite hefty sentences, including someone who "only" held onto the gun when it wasn't in use and was under 18 at the time.
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Ohh could be the incident in Brum - Burger bar boys vs the Johnson crew, it was a hair salon but I guess the gang name is takeaway related, two girls who weren't the targets were sadly killed, one of them 17.

Murder of Charlene Ellis and Letisha Shakespeare - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
Four men were each convicted of murder and attempted murder at Leicester Crown Court in March 2005. Marcus Ellis, 24 (Charlene's half-brother), Michael Gregory, 22, and Nathan Martin, 26 (brother of Yohanne[4]), were jailed for a minimum of 35 years. Rodrigo Simms, 20, was sentenced to 27 years – the lesser figure being due to his age at the time of the shooting.
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Yeh I thought he was talking about the Aston shooting but the timeline threw me off.

Still spoken of today that, left a big impact.
 
Chuk_Chuk said:
Still need to watch the whole thing but that first interview was very interesting.
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Its a perspective no one has unless they have lived that life. People can demand this happen or that happen but its just rhetoric. You don't solve a problem by doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different response.

They also did one with Neil Woods who was a undercover drugs officer who infiltrating some of the biggest drugs gangs for 14 years. He argues not only is the war on drugs lost but it actually makes the situation far worse, far more violent and has meant that policing in general has suffered as a result.

 
Colonel_Klinck said:
They also did one with Neil Woods who was a undercover drugs officer who infiltrating some of the biggest drugs gangs for 14 years. He argues not only is the war on drugs lost but it actually makes the situation far worse, far more violent and has meant that policing in general has suffered as a result.
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His books are a really eye opener into just how just how nihilistic many of those involved in the drug trade are, with the pipe-dream of "Money & Respect" trumping everything else irrespective of the cost to anyone around them.

I think there needs to be a national conversation into legalising drugs, but only on the proviso that we really need to look at places who've already done this to see what the "unintended" effects have been years later, to see whether the "risk" from legalisation is better than the current results we've seen from banning them because whilst I think both have nothing but negative outcomes, one will create less negatives than the other (none will ever have a positive outcome, thats just not reality).
 
ianh said:
His books are a really eye opener into just how just how nihilistic many of those involved in the drug trade are, with the pipe-dream of "Money & Respect" trumping everything else irrespective of the cost to anyone around them.

I think there needs to be a national conversation into legalising drugs, but only on the proviso that we really need to look at places who've already done this to see what the "unintended" effects have been years later, to see whether the "risk" from legalisation is better than the current results we've seen from banning them because whilst I think both have nothing but negative outcomes, one will create less negatives than the other (none will ever have a positive outcome, thats just not reality).
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Pretty easy to do.

Portugal, a similar nation to us, decriminalised drugs in 2001 and drug use actually fell compared with other EU countries.

transformdrugs.org

Drug decriminalisation in Portugal: setting the record straight. | Transform

transformdrugs.org transformdrugs.org
 
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