Armed gang violence. What's going on in Liverpool?

[visibleman]

have you actually got any knowledge of drill music? it's all gangs fighting each other and creating beefs to stay relevant....

nothing like video games or rap music etc

how many drill artists got locked up for violent crimes like stabbings or shootings? seems like a lot of them

You mean like the 80s and 90s with hiphop and rap, as well as the few handfuls of other genres that you arguably link to gang related violence if really tried to squint.
But sure drill music, which has only really been on the UK shores for 10/12 years, is the cause for it all getting "out of hand" - have you got a source that backs that up at all? Or any form of stats?

You've used words like "seems" so i'm assuming you're talking out your backside but, you might surprise me

As for knowledge, oddly enough, yes - not from listening, not my bag, but recording side of it.

 

[Chris Wilson]

As I said, make of it what you will, probably needs a criminal law barrister to give an opinion, the rozzers haven't even issued a description yet, nor said if the shot man taken to hospital by his "friends" was detained there. I THINK doctors are obliged by law to inform the police of gunshot wounds. *THINK* again being the operative word

 

[dave28]

drugs and gangs

 

[arknor]

You mean like the 80s and 90s with hiphop and rap, as well as the few handfuls of other genres that you arguably link to gang related violence if really tried to squint.
But sure drill music, which has only really been on the UK shores for 10/12 years, is the cause for it all getting "out of hand" - have you got a source that backs that up at all? Or any form of stats?

You've used words like "seems" so i'm assuming you're talking out your backside but, you might surprise me

As for knowledge, oddly enough, yes - not from listening, not my bag, but recording side of it.

go on google and look how many drill artists are in prison and what crimes they are found guilty of

 

[Malevolence]

As I said, make of it what you will, probably needs a criminal law barrister to give an opinion, the rozzers haven't even issued a description yet, nor said if the shot man taken to hospital by his "friends" was detained there. I THINK doctors are obliged by law to inform the police of gunshot wounds. *THINK* again being the operative word

https://www.gmc-uk.org/-/media/documents/gmc-guidance-for-doctors---confidentiality---reporting-gunshot-and-knife-wounds_pdf-70063779.pdf

 

[Johno please?]

What has society become? We thought we were better than this.

Pffft, you still have that much regard for humanity? We're a plague, a slighty better version sure than say a few hundred years ago but a plague non the less.

 

[visibleman]

go on google and look how many drill artists are in prison and what crimes they are found guilty of

Not what you stated - again, have you got stats or sources that clearly demonstrate and show gun and gang violence getting "out of hand" in the UK, as you put it, since drill music became popular (so, 2009/2010 onwards) in the UK?

Again, you stated that drill music is to blame so the onus is on you to prove that claim when asked and not for someone else to do the leg work. And this isn't a trick question @arknor, you either have or haven't. And if you haven't, just say, so we can move on with the topic

 

[Minusorange]

Woman killed in Liverpool shooting was not intended target, police say

Ashley Dale was "an innocent member of the public" who was "thoughtlessly shot", police say.

www.bbc.co.uk

Wonder if this one was unrelated ?

 

[scarps]

Woman killed in Liverpool shooting was not intended target, police say

Ashley Dale was "an innocent member of the public" who was "thoughtlessly shot", police say.

www.bbc.co.uk

Wonder if this one was unrelated ?

Says this near the bottom
Ms Dale was the half-sister of 16-year-old Lewis Dunne, who was shot dead in a case of mistaken identity in Liverpool in 2015

Two people of the same family both shot and killed by mistake? Either extremely unlucky or there's probably a few people been shot in between and its all retaliation shootings

 

[Tony Edwards]

As I said, make of it what you will, probably needs a criminal law barrister to give an opinion, the rozzers haven't even issued a description yet, nor said if the shot man taken to hospital by his "friends" was detained there. I THINK doctors are obliged by law to inform the police of gunshot wounds. *THINK* again being the operative word

Basicaly you want to know if they were black so you can up the rhetoric and say I told you so, even if they are 2nd 3rd generation. Which is pretty sad really.

You do know all the kids involved in the Rhys Jones murder were white right?

 

[aVdub]

Time to take the fine gloves off the police and the agencies that watch the estates and fight fire with fire.

You want to go around town in 33C heat in a hoody and full on black clothing, then the police will tackle you first and ask questions later. If after the curfew, then you will be arrested and taken back to the nick before you can say BRUV

 

[Tony Edwards]

Time to take the fine gloves off the police and the agencies that watch the estates and fight fire with fire.

You want to go around town in 33C heat in a hoody and full on black clothing, then the police will tackle you first and ask questions later. If after the curfew, then you will be arrested and taken back to the nick before you can say BRUV

We just need many more police, more prisons and more judges/courts and more targeted police groups like gangs, drugs and the other acts that dominate most crimes.

I say just, but we really need a hell of a lot more police policing.

 

[arknor]

Not what you stated - again, have you got stats or sources that clearly demonstrate and show gun and gang violence getting "out of hand" in the UK, as you put it, since drill music became popular (so, 2009/2010 onwards) in the UK?

Again, you stated that drill music is to blame so the onus is on you to prove that claim when asked and not for someone else to do the leg work. And this isn't a trick question @arknor, you either have or haven't. And if you haven't, just say, so we can move on with the topic

okay dood my bad totally unrelated that we now have gangs of youths dressed like they are in a drill music video all over the UK committing crime waves.
not for me to prove anything, a few google searchs is all the evidence anyone needs.

 

[Tony Edwards]

okay dood my bad totally unrelated that we now have gangs of youths dressed like they are in a drill music video all over the UK committing crime waves.
not for me to prove anything, a few google searchs is all the evidence anyone needs.

Drill sort of came out of it rather than is a cause of it. Its a bit like blaming NWA for gang violence. Not all drill rappers are criminals, a lot pretend they are but they arent.

 

[Mysterae_]

We just need many more police, more prisons and more judges/courts and more targeted police groups like gangs, drugs and the other acts that dominate most crimes.

I say just, but we really need a hell of a lot more police policing.

We do, but we also need to tackle the reasons why mostly men (arguably?) get caught up in such things. Is it lack of prospects, peer pressure, the environment they are brought up in or nature/nurture? At what point does your child turn in to a ****? Is it 5 years old? Probably not. Is it 10 years old? Doubt it. 15 years old? Probably too late. Teenage years are the most critical time in a child's life and we are letting the future generation down.

As for policing, if the police had the technology and manpower they could create a database of every person in gangs, their connections and their goings on. Break them up, offer alternatives that will allow them to grow and prosper. We don't want the UK to turn in to the 51st State of America.

 

[arknor]

We do, but we also need to tackle the reasons why mostly men (arguably?) get caught up in such things. Is it lack of prospects, peer pressure, the environment they are brought up in or nature/nurture?

Environment and peer pressure, which turns into lack of prospects when your bunking off school and getting eo education.
also it's easy money and way better than working a crap job for low pay.

I know people who went from robbing car stereos at 13 to breaking into houses by time they were 15, they were stealing cars and motorbikes at that age too.

None of them got rich from doing it but a few made national news papers for shootings etc as adults.

this was decades ago though, these days the police seem to have given up or something... also courts aren't likely to send people down anyway and if they do it's only for short sentences.

you will see people int he papers with hundreds of crimes on their record but probably never spend a day in prison.


These days it seems like as a petty criminal at a young age you could still be making crazy money just snatching watches or whatever from people.


Why not just turn to a life of crime if you see the older generation driving around in brand new AUDIs and Mercedes earnt with drug money etc

 

[Mr Badger]

Drill sort of came out of it rather than is a cause of it. Its a bit like blaming NWA for gang violence. Not all drill rappers are criminals, a lot pretend they are but they arent.

Guns don't kill people rappers do, I seen it in a documentary on BBC2.

 

[GGizmo]

You make it sound like this sort of stuff never happened before.

I think in a way its a natural process unless there is a counter rebellion against it.

I was watching a documentary the other day about the Vikings charging around the world savagely attacking places. Then I think of whats happening in Scandinavia, particularly in Norway and Sweden. It seems that the stronger a society was in the past the weaker it becomes as time goes on.

Law and order in the Western world is crumbling. I'm not sure if its being done on purpose, or people are just brainwashed to not take a personal interest in their surroundings.

The people who we'd expect to be pushing for law and order seem happy to sit on the side lines moaning about it.

 

[Chris Wilson]

"The man being chased was also shot and remains in hospital in a serious, but not life-threatening, condition.
Detectives have not yet spoken to him and he has not been arrested."

Says it all really, what a state our police forces are in these days.

 

[Hades]

"The man being chased was also shot and remains in hospital in a serious, but not life-threatening, condition.
Detectives have not yet spoken to him and he has not been arrested."

Says it all really, what a state our police forces are in these days.

The guy probably isn't entirely innocent and may well be in a gang for example. But in this matter he is currently another victim. Why would they arrest him for being shot? I agree they should try to talk to him but in all likelihood the doctors have probably said he can't be talked to yet. When I was in the back of the ambulance with a broken leg, having been knocked off my motorbike by a car, the police had to ask the paramedics permission to talk to me and take a standard breath test (I was clear before anyone asks).