Arsenal FC - A complete shambles. What needs to change? *Please read OP before posting*

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Participant said:
If Wenger leaves, Arsenal will hire someone like Koeman and become what Tottenham were for the last decade. Mediocre.

Then Arsenal fans will be crying and begging Wenger to return. It'll be Ferguson / Moyes all over again.

I agree with Wenger that the director of football position is redundant if you have the right manager, and there's nothing wrong with him voicing that opinion as manager of the club.
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+1

I say sign him up for another 3 years. Hope we finish top 4 and win FA Cup to silence the plastic trophy hunting hooligans :p:D
 
You want more of the same then?

What in your eyes is the reason why we have not progressed for 5 if not the last 10 years?

Maybe we have turned a corner. The change in formation.... we'll have to wait and see I guess.
 
opethdisciple said:
You want more of the same then?

What in your eyes is the reason why we have not progressed for 5 if not the last 10 years?

Maybe we have turned a corner. The change in formation.... we'll have to wait and see I guess.
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I don't mind to be honest. How do fans of teams like Charlton or leeds feel I wonder? If we get too greedy we may end up like man u or worse.
 
opethdisciple said:
You want more of the same then?

What in your eyes is the reason why we have not progressed for 5 if not the last 10 years?

Maybe we have turned a corner. The change in formation.... we'll have to wait and see I guess.
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How would a new manager move us forward do you think?

I guess if it's just the psychology of having someone new with new ideas then it might work. I think the players love Arsene though, irrespective of the media banging on about "the players aren't playing for him".

A new manager wouldn't have any more money to spend but they may arguably spend it wiser. They will still have to put up with the same owner/board.

I think the reason we haven't progressed is the same as it is for any team, the PL is really really hard. There are 3 teams who can spend reckless amounts of money and then things behind them are evening out a bit with all the TV money. It's that extra money that the rich 3 can spend that makes a difference over the 38 games. The last 11 PL's have been won by one of those sides apart from the freak last season.
 
B1gbeard said:
How would a new manager move us forward do you think?

I guess if it's just the psychology of having someone new with new ideas then it might work. I think the players love Arsene though, irrespective of the media banging on about "the players aren't playing for him".

A new manager wouldn't have any more money to spend but they may arguably spend it wiser. They will still have to put up with the same owner/board.

I think the reason we haven't progressed is the same as it is for any team, the PL is really really hard. There are 3 teams who can spend reckless amounts of money and then things behind them are evening out a bit with all the TV money. It's that extra money that the rich 3 can spend that makes a difference over the 38 games. The last 11 PL's have been won by one of those sides apart from the freak last season.
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I agree with you. I love Wenger... but also I am partly ready for change.

If you look at the Spurs side and then even players like Kante.... why haven't we tried to sign some of them. The margins are tight. The pick of players actually very small. Buying the right players over the long term is what differentiates one manger over another.

For example, we went for Xhaka over Kante. Now Xhaka I think is actually quite good, but the better bet would have been Kante. He's French as well, but also has Premier League experience.

The second element is formation and getting the team organised on the pitch. At times we dont seem to have a system, we cant defend and Wenger has been to arrogant to change.

Other teams like Spurs and Chelsea have a system.
 
opethdisciple said:
I agree with you. I love Wenger... but also I am partly ready for change.

If you look at the Spurs side and then even players like Kante.... why haven't we tried to sign some of them. The margins are tight. The pick of players actually very small. Buying the right players over the long term is what differentiates one manger over another.

for example, we went for Xhaka over Kante. Now Xhaka i think is actually quite good, but the better bet would have been Kante. He's French as well, but also has Premier League experience.

The second element is formation and getting the team organised on the pitch. At times we dont seem to have a system, we cant defend and Wenger has been to arrogant to change.

Other teams like Spurs and Chelsea have a system.
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I think Kante highlights the difference now though. 10-15 years ago he would be at Arsenal but it's almost possible to find a talent without everyone knowing about it. I agree though there are some players out there we should have spotted or scouted better. Ali comes to mind immediately.

I don't personally think Wenger is arrogant but he believes his teams should go out and play entertaining football all of the time irrespective of who we are playing. Not saying it's right, but he often talks about entertaining the fans and playing our game.

I also think the time has maybe come for change but as said before, it needs to be for the right reasons.
 
Makes me laugh the amount of arsenal fans laying into Wenger.

He's been an amazing servant to your club and has kept the team in the top 4 for what, 26 years is it?

As a Liverpool fan I'd kill for that :p
 
IvanDobskey said:
Makes me laugh the amount of arsenal fans laying into Wenger.

He's been an amazing servant to your club and has kept the team in the top 4 for what, 26 years is it?

As a Liverpool fan I'd kill for that :p
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Yes. For the last 20/21 years we have been in the Champions League. so hats off to him. Amazing consistency.

But what annoys us is we are only really there to make up the numbers. We had that one season in 2006 where we actually where capable of winning games and that took us to the champions league final where with 10 men for 81 mins we held Barcelona to 1 -0 to the Arsenal.

(a)But these days our season are predictable. Start well, off the pace by Christmas. Crash out to Bayern at the Quaters having been thumped again and then finish top four. Thats the the height of the mans ambition.

Preseason he is all, "why do we need to sign anyone when we've got etc etc etc....

Fails to sing players we desperately need.

The we struggle (see a) and round and round we go.

Ticket prices the highest in the country.

We just feel like we are not there to compete. No. We are there (league, champions league) just to make money. Anything else is a bonus. And that cheeses the fans off.

Then you've got Kronke vs Usmanov. Usmanov wants to invest in the team. Kronke is taking money out of the club.
 
opethdisciple said:
Yes. For the last 20/21 years we have been in the Champions League. so hats off to him. Amazing consistency.

But what annoys us is we are only really there to make up the numbers. We had that one season in 2006 where we actually where capable of winning games and that took us to the champions league final where with 10 men for 81 mins we held Barcelona to 1 -0 to the Arsenal.

(a)But these days our season are predictable. Start well, off the pace by Christmas. Crash out to Bayern at the Quaters having been thumped again and then finish top four. Thats the the height of the mans ambition.

Preseason he is all, "why do we need to sign anyone when we've got etc etc etc....

Fails to sing players we desperately need.

The we struggle (see a) and round and round we go.

Ticket prices the highest in the country.

We just feel like we are not there to compete. No. We are there (league, champions league) just to make money. Anything else is a bonus. And that cheeses the fans off.

Then you've got Kronke vs Usmanov. Usmanov wants to invest in the team. Kronke is taking money out of the club.
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I do see where you are coming from, but I really don't see that it's Wenger's fault. He does amazingly well considering the amount of investment in the team. Wenger is a great manager, he just needs more ambitious owners.

I feel Liverpool are kind of in the same situation. I rate klopp highly, but I don't think he will get the money he needs to make Liverpool truly competitive at the top level again.

It's all about money in football these days unfortunately :(
 
IvanDobskey said:
I do see where you are coming from, but I really don't see that it's Wenger's fault. He does amazingly well considering the amount of investment in the team. Wenger is a great manager, he just needs more ambitious owners.

I feel Liverpool are kind of in the same situation. I rate klopp highly, but I don't think he will get the money he needs to make Liverpool truly competitive at the top level again.

It's all about money in football these days unfortunately :(
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That's my thoughts as well.

The root of the problem is with the owners.
 
Its not all about money imo...it helps but look at Leicester last season and look at the league this. Sure Chelsea won it but two of the current top 4 are sides you wouldnt associate with spending big.
 
I think Spurs have done what Arsenal did back in 97. They have brought in a young talented manager who has bought young, strong players with a desire to win. The problem for them is they are now entering a period of uncertainty. I'm not sure how the ground expansion is effecting finances but however loyal, the big teams will be sniffing around their best players and they will have a battle to keep them.

The thing for Liverpool and Spurs, as pointed out above, is that it needs to be consistent now for a number of seasons to be considered real progress. Anything other than top 4 for both teams in the coming seasons will be considered a failure.
 
I read a report recently about Kronke and one of his MLS sides, LA Dodgers (something like that). There fans complaining of the same thing Arsenal are.

They had a good last season and where expecting to build on that. Instead they had little investment and the owner is taking money out of the club.
 
Participant said:
If Wenger leaves, Arsenal will hire someone like Koeman and become what Tottenham were for the last decade. Mediocre.

Then Arsenal fans will be crying and begging Wenger to return. It'll be Ferguson / Moyes all over again.

I agree with Wenger that the director of football position is redundant if you have the right manager, and there's nothing wrong with him voicing that opinion as manager of the club.
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I wont.

His not good anymore as a manager and much rather we change.
 
Sky Sports claiming that Wenger is refusing to say if the match on Sunday is his last as Arsenal boss.

I wonder if he misses out on the top 4 he walks.
 
I've been an Arsenal fan for my entire life (not that long, but still), and I just feel there isn't much life in the team. There isn't that spark you used to see, that you see with teams like Barcelona, or Liverpool, or even Brighton. I don't follow it enough to be able to deduce what needs to change, however. I think Wenger is due his time.
 
MrRockliffe said:
I've been an Arsenal fan for my entire life (not that long, but still), and I just feel there isn't much life in the team. There isn't that spark you used to see, that you see with teams like Barcelona, or Liverpool, or even Brighton. I don't follow it enough to be able to deduce what needs to change, however. I think Wenger is due his time.
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Do you feel that's the same for the up until now, regular top 4 teams though? I look at Man Utd, City and Chelsea and feel the same on and off the pitch even with their manager changes. The PL feels a bit like a film at the moment with the plot revolving around something that used to be really relevant and people were really passionate about and they felt very close to and we are in the middle part of the film. The bit where that thing has grown and moved away from normal people and it all feels a bit soulless (we still support and love, but it's not the same).

Things seem a lot more exciting at Spurs (not sure about Liverpool tbh) at the moment I guess because they are on the fringes of the film, the indie guy who stands around looking cool. They haven't been contaminated yet by the soulless Football Manager type attitude that the owners of the top 4 have. They've got that to come if they continue on their current trajectory.
 
Jamie thinks it's time for change.

I think he's points are valid. But behind Wenger is the board. Changing the manager night not be enough. It's the board as well.

Also why is Adams laying the boot in to Wenger at the moment?
 
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