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ATI cuts 6950 allocation

Fact is if you find a Sweet spot the company makes more profit then if they sell the card at a higher amount, 100,000 cards @ £100 profit is more money then 20,000 cards at £150 profit and you also get a bigger following for Brand projection on your next product AKA Fan boys.

AMD have allways been about affordable performance, Look at the 9800Pro the reason it was such a massive Hit was A) it was well priced at £220-£250 B) It was ballistically faster then Rivals, Which made it a Hit.
 
Not really, the business strategies of ATI and AMD as different companies is likely to differ... and what may have been true of ATI may not be true of AMD.
 
Your comparing steam sales to manufacturing?

Your economics might sound great and sometimes work, but generally very very few companies operate this way and those that do survive on thin margins and AMD certainly does not do business this way*, if theres one thing I admire about AMD its their business acumen.


*Thats not to say they haven't used these methods tactically but its not a foundation of the way they do business.

You should know then that there is no way AMD is releasing HD6970 at over $499. Even though I still think it will be around $459, let's assume $499 for now. At this price point, current exchange rate and 20% VAT, the launch price in the UK should be around £379 plus/minus price gauging due to supply levels. HD6950 would end up being £279 or so and HD6990 (dual 6950) would cost around £569 (with the most fluctuation in pricing due to it being the enthusiast card). I very much doubt the cards will be that expensive though.
 
Are they planning to use basically the same architecture for 28nm?

Not a clue, people say architecture like theres a massive massive change between some generations and thats rarely the case. The 2900xt moved to fully programable shaders, but the x1900xt had already moved to be dramatically shader heavy design(cough, AMD are usually thinking ahead a little, though maybe TOO far ahead too often to reap the rewards of it). Its a big change but also, not that big a change.

Anything about 28nm is speculating, there was talk that AMD were trying to basically bring part of the next gen cards into current gen cards as a new front end but keeping the old shaders. That might very well be the 6870, while the 6970 ends up a shrunken version of their full next gen 32nm chip.

AFAIK there were two chips, Northern Island and Southern Island, one meant for 32nm, one for 28nm, afaik parts of(or maybe all) of the NI design from 32nm has been pushed into 68/69xx cards, I doubt anyone outside of AMD knows what changes they planned from NI to SI chips, maybe just a large bump in shaders, maybe not, maybe a massive redesign, who knows. I would expect at some stage, to move to a 384bit bus, no idea if/when gddr6 exists/will be available. They went with a 256bit bus for a 1120 shader Barts, they are supposedly staying with 256bit bus for a 1920 shader 6970, at some stage you'd think bandwidth will be an issue.

I think they've got a new shader design for 28nm chips. The 6 series are a "hybrid" between their next generation, and the Evergreen chips. They use the front and back ends of their new design, while keeping the shader structure of the evergreen chips.

By most accounts so far, and from the only thing Charlie has really been willing to commit to, this has moved to a similar, yet very different 4 way shader, if it ends up being true then the 6870 does look like a merged design, evergreen shader + NI front end, the 6970 looks like a NI front end and shaders, but at a dramatically lower shader count than you would have expected for 32nm.

If only it was that simple, selling more cards at a lower price eats into your profit margin as you have to pay extra staff hours for handling the cards through the pipeline, your more exposed when things go wrong i.e. a batch of faulty cards can potentially wipe out a lot of your profit. And a whole load more to it.

A lot of things you cite above had nothing to do with any benevolence but things like fluctuating exchange rate, component supply levels, etc. for example you buy a bunch of GTX260 in at a price and have them in stock theres a limit to how far you can manouvre the price on what you already stock, if the exchange rate then fluctuates newer lines can be purchased at a better or worse price.

SOrry but what has realistically any of that got to do with anything I said. The first paragraph is simply wrong, if you sell 2million cards at £100 profit at £300, or 500k £400 cards with £200 profit, theres more profit in the 2million cheaper cards, double infact. Ask ANY retailer if they've ever sold more £450 cards than they've sold £300 cards, even if price/performance was identical, it simply doesn't happen. Likewise in reality a £300/£400 card doesn't equate to £100 more in AMD's pocket, it equates to £100 more in AMD, AIB, distro and retailers pockets. 90% of the extra cost involved in selling more cards, is having a bigger truck, carry more cards at a time, at a lower cost per card in terms of delivery. Its also cheaper per PCB to order 500k rather than 200k, and its cheaper per memory chip to order 50k chips rather than 25k chips. A batch of cards is a batch of cards, if they fail they fail, the wafer costs the same and its rare for a "failed batch" to make it too market. The last large batch of effected cards I can think of where thousands of GF4 ti 200's from Gainward, donkeys years ago.

AS for benevolance, despite me specifically saying it has NOTHING to do with any good will, but purely business sense you again(as MANY Nvidia guys do) bring up the idea that AMD are just nicer as some kind of joke. Yet every AMD guy I know says , quite specifically, over and over, that its nothing of the sort, cheaper prices, more sales, more profit overall.
 
Hate to point it out... 9800Pro? AMD?

AMD now owns ATI does it not, Even more reason to suggest decent vaule, We are all going off the assumption the 69xx will be faster then nvidias offerings which no one can possible know since paper specs don't mean a damn thing without drivers to back them up.

Also a fair assumption is since AMD droped the ATI name they have the same business motto and goals.
 
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Not really, the business strategies of ATI and AMD as different companies is likely to differ... and what may have been true of ATI may not be true of AMD.

Yet, ATi had huge success when they went for value and performance, and lost market share when they increased prices, they've since seen a massive market share gain when going for better pricing and cheaper strategy.

AMD were gaining market share hand over fist, then they got big headed, released some FX57's and started to look poor value, and lost a lot of market share when they were both not very good value and not as fast, then went back to high value and decent performance at low cost, and enjoyed a lot more success than their "high price" marketing strategy.

So both companies separately made the same mistake, and so their market share, profits, and general success plummet, and both companies went on a "low cost, great value" strategy and have enjoyed great success.

Both companies have adopted a singular strategy, thats working for both now, working for both in the past and they've publically stated as their mission plan, this is their strategy for the whole company and its been that way for the best part of 3 years.

But you think they'll throw this out the window to get crazy profits on a card that at that price, wouldnt' sell well? When they have the opportunity to sell more cards, at a lower cost, making more overall profits, while hurting Nvidia? Are you confusing AMD and Nvidia's CEO by chance, stupidest plan possible is usually Dear Leaders mandate.


Simple fact is, Nvidia seem unable to make a 580gtx in large quantities, its anything but describable as a new gen, its ridiculously expensive, and few people want to buy £500 cards.

So when AMD have massive availability of their probably faster card and Nvidia can't even make theirs in large numbers, the best strategy is to price them so high the volume is low and it makes a 580gtx look not terrible value?
 
Just had a quick browse around some other places to get a feel for the anticipated price point these new cards will come in at, I've seen a 6870 at £171.xx given that is meant to be a mid range card in the 'new world' it will certainly give merit to the 6950 being priced at £249ish, which in turn would make the 6970 £329-349 looking at the previous card launches.

Being £50 below a 580GTX and with anything over a 10% performance increase will make it an easy choice for prospective buyers. I can't really see how Nvidia can respond other than lowering prices, even with zero stock available in the channel. :)

EDIT: It would also seem the 6850 fell down a bit also, £136.xx and £139.xx from different places, seems that e-tailors are already receiving rebates on currently held stock to make room for these new cards.
 
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^^^
i would like to think that, but
just like we would like ravens comments to be true we cant be sure until the day really

raven has made a make or break comment here, im sure he would do that if it was incorrect surely
 
Just had a quick browse around some other places to get a feel for the anticipated price point these new cards will come in at, I've seen a 6870 at £171.xx given that is meant to be a mid range card in the 'new world' it will certainly give merit to the 6950 being priced at £249ish, which in turn would make the 6970 £329-349 looking at the previous card launches.

Gibbo has already stated that the 6970 will be 360-400 deniros IIRC.
 
lols ravens made a name for himself on various forums with his predictions
and the yanks are lol'ing
 
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