Australia disabled migrant policy

Soldato
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Anyone working in another country, as an economic migrant, should be prepared for the possibility their visa won't be renewed. They decided to start a family knowing their situation in Australia wasn't guaranteed to be a permanent one.

Irrelevant as above they made the decision to start a family when there was no guarantee, healthy child or not, that they could stay iindefinitely.
Of course we can't tell what an alternative future would be. But I think they were heading to be permanent at the time of pregnancy.

There is no evidence they would have been rejected if they either didn't have a child or had a non-disabled child.

They have purely been rejected because they have a disabled child.

I still would challenge a law that says this kid isn't Australian. If his parents died tomorrow his only known life would be in Australia.

The parents had been in Australia for 6 years prior to starting a family. In my view anything above short term visas are residential. 6 years is way above a visitors visa time.

I think the law the Australian government is using is to stop "anchor babies", were people fly to a country on a visit and give birth. I remember Chinese people were doing it in the US. I would contest this situation is not an anchor baby.
 
Caporegime
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The parents had been in Australia for 6 years prior to starting a family. In my view anything above short term visas are residential. 6 years is way above a visitors visa time.

I think the law the Australian government is using is to stop "anchor babies", were people fly to a country on a visit and give birth. I remember Chinese people were doing it in the US. I would contest this situation is not an anchor baby.

Yeah, I'm of roughly that opinion myself, but it seems they didn't formally establish permanent residency? It says 8 years for the first couple even!

AFAIK if they'd been permanent residents this wouldn't be an issue, the child would be Australian, they'd already have permission to stay.

So I also wonder if possibly there is something missing from the story as seems to be common with journalism these days when they want an emotive clickbait headline etc.. Like were they eligible for one anyway? IIRC you can qualify for it after 3 years on a skilled migrant visa or sooner (like 2 years in some situations).

Maybe they didn't get around to applying? Were they eligible? The journalist doesn't seem to have bothered to include that.
 
Soldato
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Yeah, I'm of roughly that opinion myself, but it seems they didn't formally establish permanent residency? It says 8 years for the first couple even!

AFAIK if they'd been permanent residents this wouldn't be an issue, the child would be Australian, they'd already have permission to stay.

So I also wonder if possibly there is something missing from the story as seems to be common with journalism these days when they want an emotive clickbait headline etc.. Like were they eligible for one anyway? IIRC you can qualify for it after 3 years on a skilled migrant visa or sooner (like 2 years in some situations).

Maybe they didn't get around to applying? Were they eligible? The journalist doesn't seem to have bothered to include that.
It'll be interesting to watch as the current Australian government is similar to Labour here. They have shown leniency in public immigration situations like this.
 
Soldato
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There are children born in immigration detention here that still get deported so no, citizenship isn't based on place of birth. There is no rite of passage to permanent visa status and it's a lengthy and expensive process. A temporary working visa via a business sponsorship is 4 years. I went through two of them before a permanent visa was granted (again, via a business sponsorship due to skill shortage) so it's not unusual for people to be on temp visas for many years, despite what people on message boards may deem to be long enough. A permanent residency visa is not the same as citizenship as it can still be revoked and frequently is. It has to be revaluated every few years and they take into account if you've been in trouble and how much of that time you have spent outside the country. Hard to believe but there are absolutely loads of Australian born people who have not left the country deep into adulthood, second generation immigrants who then have go through a citizenship process to get a passport to travel that they may actually not pass, in particular if they have a criminal history.
I am now a citizen, so have a passport which can't be taken away from me except for the most extreme circumstances. Iirc they have done it to two lads who joined up to fight for or against (can't remember which) ISIS in Syria, just basically said you are not getting back in.
 
Soldato
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I think it's bad PR for Australia for this to be the case.

There are Australian organisations trying to change the laws too.

Domestically it will mostly be popular and there's no shortage of people globally who would like to relocate to Australia. So they’ll be fine operating exactly the sort of immigration policy that it reality is common worldwide (one that considers the financial balance of any economic migration).


So following this reasoning where ever health care is socialised to some significant degree or another the sensible policy should always be to consider the financial implications of providing healthcare to any prospective applicant and their dependents from their residence be that temporary or permeant if approved.
 
Soldato
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Of course we can't tell what an alternative future would be. But I think they were heading to be permanent at the time of pregnancy.

Given that they were turned down over two years after the birth of their child for a (third?) visa its not clear that they were actually making any real meanigful steps towards residency. The article says they were looking at it before the birth but its doesn't appear that they have trued to progress this any further beacause it looks like they have been knocked back at the point their visa's were up for renewal and then found out.

There is no evidence they would have been rejected if they either didn't have a child or had a non-disabled child.

Correct but they did and that changed the equation. There's only so many ways I can say the same thing really. Anyone moving to work in another country on a visa should be prepared for the possibility that it won't be renewed and or that citzenship of the country in question may not follow. And the circumstances that can lead to that possibilty can be entirely out of the hands of the visa applicant. The host country may have changed / tightened their visa rules (as the UK did recently) or the visa applicants personal situation may have changed, (somewhat) outside of their control.

But the end result is the same. You may have to leave when your current visa expires, that's the deal.

The internets full of accounts of people that have come across these sorts of issues from various coutries... for example


They have purely been rejected because they have a disabled child.

Just the same as their application would have been turned down if they were first time applicants from the UK. Ultimately they're not Australian citizens and a renewal application will look at the benefit to the host nation, primarily from an economic standpoint, and pretty much on the same basis as if they were 1st time applicants. So for example if at the point of visa renewal the applicant was no longer working it whatever key role they had been given a visa for and or not earning the requiste amount of money required they could expect to have their visa renewal declined even if the reason they were no longer working in the afermentioned role or earning enough was out of their hands.

I still would challenge a law that says this kid isn't Australian. If his parents died tomorrow his only known life would be in Australia.

The chid's two... a move to the UK with the parents will barely even register. As i've said before although the childs disabiity is the primary cause of the visa renewals being declined the child is largely irrelevant to the argument against the Australian goverments position as there's no argument the child's move to the UK requires any additional suffering. If the child had been healthy but visa rules had changed in the interim this family could still be being told that they would have to return to the UK. This is really about the parents not wanting to return to the UK and no doubt the decision a big dissapointment to them after eight years but it's an outcome that was always a distinct possibility with or without a child.

The parents had been in Australia for 6 years prior to starting a family. In my view anything above short term visas are residential. 6 years is way above a visitors visa time.

Again I dont know how many times I can repeat what the deal with work visa's is. The goverment of a foreign nation offers you 'X' years to work in their country because its likely advantageous for both applicants and the host nation. It can be a means of moving towards an application for citizenship of that country but there's no guarantee of that. The whole idea if visa's falls into farce if the argument becomes "well i've been here for 'X' years on a visa so the county most now grant me citizenship!" That's not the deal!

I think the law the Australian government is using is to stop "anchor babies", were people fly to a country on a visit and give birth. I remember Chinese people were doing it in the US. I would contest this situation is not an anchor baby.

Thats at the more egregious end of what they are trying to prevent but ultimately Australia's work visa system is in place to seek to provide a benefit to Australians not for the benefit of people from other countries.


It's a weird disease, mostly western nations, where we have a widespread form of pathological altruism only it’s expressed by demands for spending moslty other people’s tax money on stuff. If a country wants to operate a social security net and or socialised health care for citizens it must consider the financial costs of any persons allowed to visit or stay in the country or else it's diminishing the ability it has to provide for its own citizens .
 
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Soldato
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Indeed it would be no different if they had a healthy kid but the situation had changed in Australia in the meantime and they goverment no longer wanted to issue visa's for the skills they had and declined their renewals.

Your line of argument is based solely on the fact they were on a visa where there is no guarantee that it will be renewed. That is fine, the issue people have is the reason why it's not being renewed...

All other factors being the same but this family has a fit and healthy kid, do you honestly think that their visa would not have been renewed?
 
Soldato
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Seems off, but you have to look at it from Aus's side. Would you let someone come and live in your house if you had to pay for their upkeep?

Aus and NZ don't like people rocking up and the state having to fund them, for any reason. That's why unlike the UK, they still have money to spend on their own citizens.
 
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Soldato
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Your line of argument is based solely on the fact they were on a visa where there is no guarantee that it will be renewed. That is fine, the issue people have is the reason why it's not being renewed...

All other factors being the same but this family has a fit and healthy kid, do you honestly think that their visa would not have been renewed?

As I undertand it their visa's would likely have been approved had they had a child who was might need hundreds if not millions of pounds worth of medical treatment to sustain them through their later years if childhood and all through their adulthood.

But much like anyone applying for a work visa be it a first, second third etc application that fell foul of the quite sensible restrictions in place to try to ensure that economic migration benefits Australia.

As I say it's a weird condition we seem to suffer from more in the West where some want to seem to selectively out compete each other in demonstrations of pathological altruism with (mostly) other people's tax money.

There are clear advantages for a country to have a degree of socialised health care and a social security net but for these sorts of systems to work properly they need to be discriminatory and exclude many non citizens.

I think this idea is best encapsulated by the Tim Minchin song... **** the poor (rhymes with duck)

Because in reality all the people making noises in confected apparent outrage about this situation, including rob fosters, could easily make some non trivial changes in discretionary spending in their own lives that would that would mean more/ better treatment could be offered to the millions of disabled children and adults in the third world... but we don't do this do we.

And this particular example is really stupid because the child in question can move from one nation with quite comprehensive health care to another!

It's really just a sob story because the parents can't renew their visas, which happens to many people working in many different counties each year.
 
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Soldato
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As I undertand it their visa's would likely have been approved had they had a child who was might need hundreds if not millions of pounds worth of medical treatment to sustain them through their later years if childhood and all through their adulthood.

Apologies but I have read that a few times and I can't tell if I am reading it wrong or if there is a typo there.

Is it meant to say - " As I understand it their visa's would likely have been approved had they had a child who DIDNT need hundreds if not millions of pounds worth of medical treatment to sustain them through their later years if childhood and all through their adulthood."
 
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