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Since when have drivers had an influence on whether another driver should get a drive through penalty or not? Should we start stopping cars during races to get their version of events?
Australian GP 2009 - Race 1/17 (NOT in HD BTW)
- Thread starter jaykay
- Start date
Since when have drivers had an influence on whether another driver should get a drive through penalty or not? Should we start stopping cars during races to get their version of events?
Soldato
Well when asked if he pulled over and slowed down he said no. And since that had a major bearing on weather or not Trulli went past him legally, it is pretty significant.
Why did he lie?
Permabanned
It was a drive through penalty though, just served after the race. Another driver's testimony shouldn't even come into play when looking at the available evidence they had.
Soldato
They always interview both parties involved when making a judgement. Even when it is during the race, they talk to the teams on the pit wall.
What the stewards done wrong was trusting them in the first place. They should have got all the data before punishing Trulli.
Come on guys we know what happened this has been out for days.
Safety car out
Trulli goes off track and Hamilton passes
Hamilton slows up/goes off line - as instructed by the pit
Trulli goes by thinking Hamilton has a problem
Hamilton continues
Apparently Trulli tried to let Hamilton past again to sort it out but he did not go past.
McLaren being over cautious so they did not get a penalty rather than reading the rules, and it is McLaren calling the shots on the radio rather than Hamilton.
Where they got DQed for though comes after. The stewards were obviously told that Trulli passed Hamilton under the safety car but not that Hamilton deliberately slowed/pulled over to let him pass. Where as now they have the radio transcripts showing McLaren set it up, then mislead the stewards.
Eastenders at its best
Safety car out
Trulli goes off track and Hamilton passes
Hamilton slows up/goes off line - as instructed by the pit
Trulli goes by thinking Hamilton has a problem
Hamilton continues
Apparently Trulli tried to let Hamilton past again to sort it out but he did not go past.
McLaren being over cautious so they did not get a penalty rather than reading the rules, and it is McLaren calling the shots on the radio rather than Hamilton.
Where they got DQed for though comes after. The stewards were obviously told that Trulli passed Hamilton under the safety car but not that Hamilton deliberately slowed/pulled over to let him pass. Where as now they have the radio transcripts showing McLaren set it up, then mislead the stewards.
Eastenders at its best
Associate
The thing is though, there was no reason to let Trulli back through unless of course he was told to do so by his team. Where do the rules stand on this? Can you actually let someone through just because you want to? If McLaren had just said, we thought that we had to let Trulli retake the position so we asked Lewis to pull over, then everything would be ok. Also, surely the FIA have access to all radio traffic as they said that only radio coms in the pit garage wouldn't be available to the broadcasters to view. Surely every transmission is recorded somewhere, even though we don't get to hear them all.
At some point McLaren were obviously asked, did you tell Lewis to let Trulli past, and they have said no, lying. They've been caught... end of story. I actually feel sorry for Lewis, and embarased for McLaren. They should have admitted they made a mistake, and chances are Lewis would still be 3rd or 4th.
At some point McLaren were obviously asked, did you tell Lewis to let Trulli past, and they have said no, lying. They've been caught... end of story. I actually feel sorry for Lewis, and embarased for McLaren. They should have admitted they made a mistake, and chances are Lewis would still be 3rd or 4th.
Soldato
I think the person to shoulder the blame is whoever told Hamilton to let Trulli past.
Not knowing the rules isn't really a valid escuse is it?
Not knowing the rules isn't really a valid escuse is it?
That stinks, stinks of the FIA and their meddling. We didn't ask for third, we were plenty happy with fourth.. we didnt want all of this **** involving the FIA.. we raced.. raced well and deserve some ******* points. So there was some confusion at the end but jesus, a man stood on the podium and picked up a trophy.
I am glad Trulli was up there and that he now has his third place. But to strip Hamilton of his rightful fourth is a slap in the face for something that should never of come about.
Permabanned
What are the rules in this kind of situation then JUMPUR?
Soldato
Well i don't compete in the sport or have a team of several hundred people telling me what is what, so i have an excuse for not knowing the sporting code.
But considering that McLarens point in life is to race in F1, you think they would know the rules. Toyota did.
Also i think a pretty standard rule is not to lie to the stewards, but i haven't checked the regs on that.
Permabanned
Well i don't compete in the sport or have a team of several hundred people telling me what is what, so i have an excuse for not knowing the sporting code.
But considering that McLarens point in life is to race in F1, you think they would know the rules. Toyota did.
Also i think a pretty standard rule is not to lie to the stewards, but i haven't checked the regs on that.
The reason you can't answer that question is because the rules are so (deliberately?) vague. Mclaren were being understandably cautious and if they were breaking any 'rules' then they had lost 3rd place because of it when they let Trulli pass. The FIA shouldn't even have investigated Toyota in that case.
We don't know anything about the lying yet, so I'll comment on that when I've seen the evidence so I know what I'm talking about, but you carry on.
Soldato
same here am losing patience with F1 and if the FIA carry on they will lose support and fans
I concur.
We always get stung when the FIA get involved. I was Trulli amazed when they thought about giving us third, but we didnt even want it. We slowed down.. we wanted fourth! Everything was fine! We deserve fourth!
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Soldato
The rule said you can pass under a safety car if the car infront suffers technical difficulty or if they have 3 or more wheels off the track, so it seems pretty black and white since trulli went about 20 feet off the track.
Well the reports say that Hamilton was asked if he pulled off the racing line and slowed down, he said no. the stewards found evidence in the radio transmissions that that was incorrect, sounds like lying to me. But since neither of us will get the radio transmissions, you may be waiting a long time.
Don
What a farce.
Still you would have thought that lying to the FIA by Mclaren would be a bad idea. They were bound to find out and punish them.
I pray for the day when a season goes by without the results being changed after the races.
Still you would have thought that lying to the FIA by Mclaren would be a bad idea. They were bound to find out and punish them.
I pray for the day when a season goes by without the results being changed after the races.
Soldato
I am confused as to what was rightfully yours? I do believe that McLaren deserved 3rd, and if McLaren stuck to the rules they would have got it.
Hamilton should have told the Stewards what he told the press and we wouldn't be in this mess.
Permabanned
Which rule is this? I'm not saying you're lying but I'd like to actually read the actual rule rather than see it paraphrased. If this rule is true then I'm surprised I've never seen anyone take advantage of it before, after all Glock went off the track enough as well and could easily have been passed by two people.
EDIT: I've asked a few knowledgeable fans I know from Autosport just now and they haven't heard of the rule either, so it can't be that well known.
Oh I'm so confused and outraged its not even funny. Did we deserve third? Could we have had it? They are 'if's really. And to be honest, I think if we did take third and stood on the podium then Toyota would have got the FIA involved and we would still.. somewhere along the lines of the grey rulebook.. been in trouble.
It just happens every time they have to make a decision. Although we arnt near Spa levels of frustration yet.