Australian Grand Prix 2012, Albert Park Circuit - Race 1/20

Scarbs makes a point of repeatedly saying that his write up is his theory on it. There are plenty of other theories going around too.

Arknor is posting as if what he is saying is fact.

Have you read Gary Anderson's BBC article on the merc front / rear wing combo to do with this?

No idea if its correct, but seems very interesting if true

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/17421227

(near the bottom - technical review)

Admittedly GA thinks it costs a fortune (upto £200k)and may not delevop too much performance increase, but still interesting from a technical point of view


Just to be clear - If my comments about Lewis have appeared negative, thats not what I was intending, he still got adecent result in the first race. I was only refering to the relative performances on the day of the two McLaren's. I dont think the team had any choice in keeping their cars out in each stint without going over to a 4th stop , which would have cost them more time than those few laps where time was lost prior to each actual stop. As to whether RBR could have stayed with him if LH had been ahead, I dont see why not - he couldnt exactly get ahead of Vettel even within DRS zones, so they were pretty evenly matched imo.
 
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Should mclaren get rid if the rule that the leading car gets to put first?

If button wanted to stay out how much time would they let Hamilton lose before deciding?

Hamiltons tyres were gone a lap or 2 before buttons, if the tires are gone let them pit!
 
Under the safety car, where the back markers had to be waved through the field and pass ahead of the safety car, why couldn't they just pull to one side, slow to a crawl and let the unlapped field pass them? Wouldn't this be a quicker way to get the lapped cars clear?
 
I don't think it should be such a strict rule. The leading drive should be able to pit whenever he wants without delay.

But say like last weekend, if LH pitted then it wouldn't of hindered jB as JB would have had to do a full lap at ~90seconds. More than enough time to get LH out the way. Becomes more of an issue when they are further apart.
 
Is the race edit still not up on the F1 site? I've clicked videos but all it's showing me is last years?

I wanted to see if there was a clearer video showing what happened at the end between Rosberg/Perez/Di Resta/Ricciardo/Vergne
 
would there be anything wrong with when a safetycar is deployed, basically the pit lane is closed and the cars stay in the order they were in when the safety car was deployed? to avoid a sitatuation where a driver gains a place like vettel did on sunday, i know its one of those things that can go for you or against you, but as a veiwer i felt a bit robbed of a battle for second place that looked like it would have potentially happened. I know they used to close the pitlane for at least some of the time the safety car was out a few years back but i cant remember why it changed. There isnt any issues with cars running out of fuel anymore as they are fueled for the race, or at least there supposed to be.. mclaren cough cough lol.
 
Should mclaren get rid if the rule that the leading car gets to put first?

If button wanted to stay out how much time would they let Hamilton lose before deciding?

Hamiltons tyres were gone a lap or 2 before buttons, if the tires are gone let them pit!

I don't think the rule is that strict, they don't bring Button in first regardless. He just has first call if they both want to come in on the same lap.

Regardless Mclaren ****ed up both drivers having them run 2 laps too long.
 
Under the safety car, where the back markers had to be waved through the field and pass ahead of the safety car, why couldn't they just pull to one side, slow to a crawl and let the unlapped field pass them? Wouldn't this be a quicker way to get the lapped cars clear?

I might have mis -understood this, so apologies if so

This is all about the zone where the accident has happened, they dont want ANY cars going through affected zone faster than the safety car limit, for marshals safety /any potential fragmants causing tyres to go /or worse

would there be anything wrong with when a safetycar is deployed, basically the pit lane is closed and the cars stay in the order they were in when the safety car was deployed? to avoid a sitatuation where a driver gains a place like vettel did on sunday, i know its one of those things that can go for you or against you, but as a veiwer i felt a bit robbed of a battle for second place that looked like it would have potentially happened. I know they used to close the pitlane for at least some of the time the safety car was out a few years back but i cant remember why it changed. There isnt any issues with cars running out of fuel anymore as they are fueled for the race, or at least there supposed to be.. mclaren cough cough lol.

I guess teams want the potential to gain places with a good strategy call - even though this means they could lose out on occasions too

Regardless Mclaren ****ed up both drivers having them run 2 laps too long.

maybe wrongly -but I thought they asked both drivers to stay out so that they didnt have to do another stop later in the race (I think these extra laps were on the first stop?)

Thats the annoying thing about "highlights" - its sometimes hard to get a true reflection on whats happening / team choices etc

I don't think it should be such a strict rule. The leading drive should be able to pit whenever he wants without delay.

But say like last weekend, if LH pitted then it wouldn't of hindered jB as JB would have had to do a full lap at ~90seconds. More than enough time to get LH out the way. Becomes more of an issue when they are further apart.

In relative terms we dont know when each driver made the call (or IF its up to each driver),

What Im meaning is IF JB said "Im coming in in 2 laps time" and when LH said the same (or when the engineers said it to each driver for that matter).

I know there was one call to Lewis telling him to stay out for 2 laps longer (I think this was1st stop but I could be wrong) - this gave me the impression the team didnt want 4th stop as suggested above.....
 
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Sorry I didnt see Lewis being stuck behind two slower cars all race - which cars were these (yes he got stuck behind one after a stop, but he was already abuot 10s behind at this point)
Perez and Vettel?

Not slow, but slower on straight line speed than the mclaren which meant he only really got close down the straight with DRS.

I'm guessing he could have thrown one up the inside, and passed them but being the first race and the new year he probably wanted to finish strong, so held back for a clean pass (much like Vettel's passing of last year).

This obviously wasted a lot of time and allowed Button enough to stretch a lead.

Also, don't forget, hammering around behind a slightly slower car is going to destroy your tyres and confidence, not to mention a harsh SC jump, so it's no wonder he was miffed after qualifying 1st.

I still maintain he can win the WDC, so long as he keeps out of collisions and plays the game when needed. Button is excellent at this, so Hamilton will need to know when to put the hammer down and when to plod along. As mentioned before, I believe his aggressive style doesn't suit the Pirelli tyres, so he needs to adapt this year and learn that ultimate lap time does not always equal a win if the tyres evaporate after 12 laps.
 
I guess teams want the potential to gain places with a good strategy call - even though this means they could lose out on occasions too

maybe, although personally i wouldnt want a random element having an effect on my strategy. I personaly think it detracts from the whole experience, safety car is inevitable, but should it have an impact on the race in terms of those who are otherwise unnafected by whatever caused it?. I spoke to a guy who enjoys his formula one and talks to me about it all the time, although he is a casual veiwer who watches the races when he can but more often than not watches the highlights, and he didnt even know that it was the safety car that allowed vettel to pass hamilton, he was a bit dissapointed when i told him, and he is not biased to either in any way to either driver, so i do think its a bit rubbish that things like that happen tbh. i've been on both ends, benefit or negative in terms of who i support so i can see why people would think its not good, to me it seems little different to bernies sprinkler idea etc, in that its some random element messing about with the actual racing.
 
Perez and Vettel?

Not slow, but slower on straight line speed than the mclaren which meant he only really got close down the straight with DRS.

I'm guessing he could have thrown one up the inside, and passed them but being the first race and the new year he probably wanted to finish strong, so held back for a clean pass (much like Vettel's passing of last year).

This obviously wasted a lot of time and allowed Button enough to stretch a lead.

Also, don't forget, hammering around behind a slightly slower car is going to destroy your tyres and confidence, not to mention a harsh SC jump, so it's no wonder he was miffed after qualifying 1st.

I still maintain he can win the WDC, so long as he keeps out of collisions and plays the game when needed. Button is excellent at this, so Hamilton will need to know when to put the hammer down and when to plod along. As mentioned before, I believe his aggressive style doesn't suit the Pirelli tyres, so he needs to adapt this year and learn that ultimate lap time does not always equal a win if the tyres evaporate after 12 laps.

Given how fast Vettel caught Lewis to start with, I dont see how you are saying the RBR was a lot slower in a straight line

Of course he is capable of winning the WDC, no question about it. He is probably in one of the two teams who are most likely to win the WDC and/or WCC. Your last sentence is his weak spot totally, if he can prove this isnt a weak spot in the next 4 or 5 races (while getting excellent results) he can definitely win , any longer than that .....unless one or two other main drivers get a few bad results, that is when it might start getting tricky.

If lots of different drivers win the first 6 - 8 races, then it wont matter so much, if its just one or two - the points difference could be massive if he is still learning how to get the best out of the tyres

For right or wrong his natural instinct is to hare off into the distance as soon as he gets the chance, with current rubber not reacting well to this tactic, it can take some time to alter habits of a (young ) lifetime.

maybe, although personally i wouldnt want a random element having an effect on my strategy. I personaly think it detracts from the whole experience, safety car is inevitable, but should it have an impact on the race in terms of those who are otherwise unnafected by whatever caused it?. I spoke to a guy who enjoys his formula one and talks to me about it all the time, although he is a casual veiwer who watches the races when he can but more often than not watches the highlights, and he didnt even know that it was the safety car that allowed vettel to pass hamilton, he was a bit dissapointed when i told him, and he is not biased to either in any way to either driver, so i do think its a bit rubbish that things like that happen tbh. i've been on both ends, benefit or negative in terms of who i support so i can see why people would think its not good, to me it seems little different to bernies sprinkler idea etc, in that its some random element messing about with the actual racing.

I know what you mean - but while the teams allow for a SC period (because its practically gaurenteed to occur in Aus, as well as on a few other tracks), and therefore short fll the cars with fuel to allow for this, part of the strategy is guessing how many laps the SC will be out for, etc etc - Bernie's sprinkler idea is artificially random and therefore imo hairbrained , at least the SC is actually forced to happen in most cases due to circumstances one or multiple drivers find themselves in (yes I know sometimes SC is called out over "nothing" incidents, but usually it appears for understandable reasons).


I have to admit I was hoping over the winter the FIA would scrap the ability of teams to change tyres during a red flag incident (like that in Monaco last season) that completely ruined what could have been a BRILLIANT race to the flag with some leading cars on really old tyres vs others further behind on much newer rubber. Unfortunately I dont believe anything happened with this
 
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Remember according to Martin Whitmarsh, JB and LH were saving fuel from lap 8 (or 10 laps before the 1st stop), so given both cars were going around the same speed to save fuel, you are saying making 0.5s approx a lap for 8 laps over your team mate in the same car is a poor showing :eek:

No, ya nonce ;), falling back from his teammate at 0.5s a lap was a pretty poor showing from Lewis.
 
I don't think the rule is that strict, they don't bring Button in first regardless. He just has first call if they both want to come in on the same lap.

Regardless Mclaren ****ed up both drivers having them run 2 laps too long.

EXactly.

McLaren do not state that the driver behind must wait until the driver in front has had his pit stop. What they say is the driver in front has first choice on when he wants to come. So, if both drivers want to come in on the same lap, the lead driver gets first choice.

If Hamilton wanted to, he could've pitted before Button's stop. Though Button would've had to make clear that he was not pitting on that particular lap.

Like I stated on Sunday, McLaren screwed Hamilton's strategy up. Plain and simple.

In either case, the right driver won. Vettel and Button drove best and finished 1st and 2nd. Alonso was also pretty good, though his car is crap.

If RBR can hang onto McLaren and maybe leapfrog them mid-season (performance-wise), I think he will win the title. For the McLaren boys to win the title, they will need the best car on the grid, otherwise Vettel will eat them up.
 
Like I stated on Sunday, McLaren screwed Hamilton's strategy up. Plain and simple.
.

I dont think thats strictly true.

Lewis used his tyres up a little too quickly on the day, and the team were concerned that allowing him to come in before JB would lead to a 4th stop at the end of the race

Admittedly they should have allowed him to stop a lap later rather than 2 laps after JB's stop but there could be all manner of reasons why the team chose this at the time (I think we can all agree they wouldnt purposefully hand their own car a 4s penalty - 2s per extra lap was stated on this thread - without some valid reasoing)
 
Perez and Vettel?

Not slow, but slower on straight line speed than the mclaren which meant he only really got close down the straight with DRS.

Hang on, didn't Vettel manage to pull away from Hamilton as the race progressed?

Also, if Perez really was "that" slow, Hamilton would've passed him quickly using DRS.
 
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