Australian Grand Prix 2012, Albert Park Circuit - Race 1/20

EVH said:
Jesus, the Lewis haters are out in force :rolleyes:

The Mclaren has good pace, he got beaten in to the first corner and got stuck behind 2 slower cars, while his team mate romped away in to the distance. .
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Sorry I didnt see Lewis being stuck behind two slower cars all race - which cars were these (yes he got stuck behind one after a stop, but he was already abuot 10s behind at this point)

Not suggesting he should throw in the towel (dont believe anyone suggested that), but he wasnt stuck behind a slower car for long (maybe 2-3 laps at most)

If you were meaning the RBR as well, - well 1st off it isnt a slower car (pretty equal between SV /LH / MW over the race distance , but even if LH was ahead, I doubt hewould have pulled away from the RBR pair either)

Reaper 392 said:
just a thought on the whole 'ZOMG hamilton was dropped by button' discussion. its not my opinion, but just an idea

could hamilton have been hanging back and saving his tyres in preparation for the quite likely safety car, so that he would have far better tyres than button on the restart.

this would explain why he was so far behind button despite having the pace to keep right on his gearbox if he wanted to, and why he was so miffed about the safety car coming a lap or so too late.

if you think about it, the worst that could have happened (in his eyes at the time) if that was the plan was that he trundled round and claimed second and button got the win, and the best is that the safety car came out and he was in a much better position than button on the restart
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Please explain how the logic of this works

1) Was LH meant to know which set of tyres the likely SC period would occur under, and if he did then it doesnt answer why he dropped behind on the 1st stint when the SC was happening two tyre changes later

2) Being a street circuit track position is always king , it makes no sense at all to willingly drop back that far that quickly at the start of the race

3) As proven in the last few years, its virtually impossible to get the jump on a leader in the restart, due to the leader effectively becoming the safety car, so that car can choose completely when to accelerate, further back there is more likely to be mixed up

Mr Jack said:
No, he wasn't. He was 11 secs ahead after the first pit stop, he was 4.422 seconds ahead at the completion of lap 18 (which is still a pretty poor showing, frankly). Lewis's late stop with a lap of overly worn tyres, and poor track position on return to track stretched the gap to 11.
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Remember according to Martin Whitmarsh, JB and LH were saving fuel from lap 8 (or 10 laps before the 1st stop), so given both cars were going around the same speed to save fuel, you are saying making 0.5s approx a lap for 8 laps over your team mate in the same car is a poor showing :eek:

dannyjo22 said:
Lewis will almost always have a better chance of winning because he will get more out of the car on a saturday. Both drivers had bad starts but even so Jenson had the pace at this track..
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That doesnt work at all - performance on a saturday is irrelevant to what happens on a Sunday. Different weather /track conditions, different fuel levels, tyre /car management for 60 odd laps rather than just one......

Of course Sunday is made easier if you have a good Saturday sure, but look at Alonso going from 12 to 5th (admittedly with the aid or retirements etc) , look at Merc and their amazing Saturday performance only to gradually going backwards in the race - looking at how close 2nd /3rd /4th were, MS if he had finished could have only hoped for 5th if not 6th at best (from 4th).

It could be suggested that getting the ultimate lap on Saturday could hurt the same tyres you HAVE to start the race on (ie being 2 tenths behind pole could give 2nd place the edge to the first corner, it is after all that small a margin)


edit - as to LH & JB winning more races but SV still winning the WDC it all depends on the 2nd/3rd etc places when you dont win....impossible to tell right now
 
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* McLaren's front row lock out ended Red Bull dominance of 24 races on the front row

* Webber and Ricciardo is the only Aussies have both scored points in the same race

* Ricciardo becomes the 319th driver to score a F1 World Championship Point.

* Every driver on the F1 grid has now scored with exception of the Frenchies - Grosjean, Vergne and Pic

* Jenson leads the F1 points for the 1st time since 2010 Canadian GP

* McLaren leads the F1 Constructor Points for the 1st time since 2010 Hungarian GP
 
FrankJH said:
Please explain how the logic of this works

1) Was LH meant to know which set of tyres the likely SC period would occur under, and if he did then it doesnt answer why he dropped behind on the 1st stint when the SC was happening two tyre changes later

2) Being a street circuit track position is always king , it makes no sense at all to willingly drop back that far that quickly at the start of the race

3) As proven in the last few years, its virtually impossible to get the jump on a leader in the restart, due to the leader effectively becoming the safety car, so that car can choose completely when to accelerate, further back there is more likely to be mixed up
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what i was thinking was, LH drives carefully and makes his tyres, effectively, a lap or two younger than jensons as soon as he drops into second. assuming they both then race at similar tyre wear rates hamiltons tyres will always be effectively one or two laps younger, except in the pit stop phase, where hamilton will pit later than jenson.

if a safety car comes out when they are both on the same pitstop phase, they all bunch up and hamilton has younger tyres to pass jenson at some point after the restart, and should find it easier to keep right on his gearbox to pass on what is technically a street circuit, but there are still places to pass.
if a safety car comes out once jenson has pitted but hamilton hasnt then its a dream come true for hamilton, because he can pit during the safety car phase and possibly overtake jenson.

however, jenson's late pitstop and the 'double shuffle' ruined that idea.

as i said, its an idea to explain hamilton dropping to ~4s behind button before the pitstops


not the greatest explanation, but i hope you see where i'm getting at
 
Reaper 392 said:
what i was thinking was, LH drives carefully and makes his tyres, effectively, a lap or two younger than jensons as soon as he drops into second. assuming they both then race at similar tyre wear rates hamiltons tyres will always be effectively one or two laps younger, except in the pit stop phase, where hamilton will pit later than jenson.

if a safety car comes out when they are both on the same pitstop phase, they all bunch up and hamilton has younger tyres to pass jenson at some point after the restart, and should find it easier to keep right on his gearbox to pass on what is technically a street circuit, but there are still places to pass.
if a safety car comes out once jenson has pitted but hamilton hasnt then its a dream come true for hamilton, because he can pit during the safety car phase and possibly overtake jenson.

however, jenson's late pitstop and the 'double shuffle' ruined that idea.

as i said, its an idea to explain hamilton dropping to ~4s behind button before the pitstops


not the greatest explanation, but i hope you see where i'm getting at
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nice theory however;

1) LH has never shown to be that kind of driver , of course he can change and adapt, and imo he needs to a little bit

2)your theory implies that he would give tyres back that still had life in them (as they came in on the same lap) - why not use this grippier rubber at some stage before giving them back

3) Look at the lap times for LH at the end of his stint, I believe he was getting considerably slower and slower last couple of laps - those tyres were completely shot
 
All the Hamilton bashing is amusing, but a bit early no? not sure I could put up with a whole season of this nonsense :p

Firstly, JB had a great race, well deserved win and must be feeling very happy now coming into a new season with seemingly the best car and continuing good form.

LH, imo, also had a good race but he made one major mistake and the team made another that ultimately cost him at least one place. Off the start he screwed up allowing Button past, obviously with the way Button was driving he might've got past anyway but who knows. Then the pit stop, it was quite clear they held Button out at least a lap if not 2 laps too long for that first stop, and Hamilton had yet another lap beyond that which both increased the gap to Button and then put him behind Perez for a couple of laps increasing that further.

Then there was the Safety car, Vettel was lucky in not having stopped and his positioning when the SC was called, he was gifted 2nd place there. Arguably Hamilton should've been able to overtake, but if the positions were reversed it was clear to see that the Red Bull didn't have the straight line speed to bother the McLaren much so if after the SC it was Hamilton in 2nd I'm fairly sure he would've got second.

Either way, shaping up to be an interesting year, McLaren are looking very good which is great for me as a fan, Red Bull are still good but not there in Q, Ferrari are poor which is always a laugh. Renault/Lotus actually look good as well, Raikkonen did some good laps but was stuck in traffic a lot, given Grosjean got it on 3rd for the start I think they could factor more in future races. And then there's Merc, great Q pace (MS for Pole at Malaysia? :p) but kinda awful race pace, but that'll throw a spanner in the works of the teams that can't qualify ahead of them...
 
SKILL said:
Either way, shaping up to be an interesting year, McLaren are looking very good which is great for me as a fan, Red Bull are still good but not there in Q, Ferrari are poor which is always a laugh. Renault/Lotus actually look good as well, Raikkonen did some good laps but was stuck in traffic a lot, given Grosjean got it on 3rd for the start I think they could factor more in future races. And then there's Merc, great Q pace (MS for Pole at Malaysia? :p) but kinda awful race pace, but that'll throw a spanner in the works of the teams that can't qualify ahead of them...
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Whilst that's an fair description of what happened in Oz - the relative performance could be quite different this weekend. One problem that F1 suffers from a lot, is over analysis of an insufficient dataset.
 
clv101 said:
Whilst that's an fair description of what happened in Oz - the relative performance could be quite different this weekend. One problem that F1 suffers from a lot, is over analysis of an insufficient dataset.
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That's true, although I don't expect any major changes over the next couple of races as a lack of upgrades for the 'flyaway' races, so the only change will be in setup.

Obviously beyond that the upgrades will start coming to improve the cars (eg race pace for Merc) and it gets down to who is better at developing.

But either way I think it's shaping up to be interesting, of course as a McLaren fan a Hamilton/Button 1-2 in the championship would be interesting to me even if they were a mile clear of the rest of the field :p
 
Mr Men said:
The rear only works when DRS is activated? great for quali, not so good in race when it matters.
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explain how those "slots" on the front wing are blown?

the rear wing duct is aparently always active which is how its legal, its just more effective when DRS is open as its blown more
 
arknor said:
the rear wing duct is aparently always active which is how its legal, its just more effective when DRS is open as its blown more
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Where have you heard that? I thought the duct was only open when the DRS flap opened as otherwise it covered the holes on the endplates?
 
Can you provide details of where this info is coming from arknor, as you seem to know more about this rumoured Merc concept than pretty much every F1 journalist and team out there.
 
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