Austrian Grand Prix 2016, Spielberg - Race 9/21

I'm not sure that the outcome and the result should necessarily determine which side of the team they support, and also think it's only fair to look at T1 Austin last year.

The facts the driver are faced with at the point they decide to run their oppo wide with the aim of gaining advantage are :- (I'm ignoring the brake issue as it was a known quantity and so is largely irrelevant.

1) There is a hightened chance contact let's call that 50/50
2) If there is contact there is a change you'll come worse off' I'll call that 55/45 because I assume the drivers know the angles that present the strongest parts of their car, but they don't know completely what the oppo car will do
3) If contact does or doesn't occur, you stand the risk of penalties.

So all in all, the action of pushing out wide is highly risky and slim that you will become better off, and nearly entirely impacted by the action by the oppo at this point, and I guess they make their judgment based on their guess on how the oppo will react.

In Austin Ham pushed Rosberg out wide, just as badly as Ros did in Aus, but Rosberg backed out to avoid contact. There're no damage and also no penalty for Ham, Rosberg did the same thing and got damage and a penalty.

I just put it all down to luck really. Austin could've ended up like Austria , and as a result Rosberg might have won the championship, if he'd just held the outside line but turned. Similarly Ros this week could've nicked Ham a puncture or just squeezed him and gone on to win and extend his lead.

My view they are as much racer's as each, but through luck or judgment, Ham seems to manage his "when's" better
 
mbmbmb said:
I'm not sure that the outcome and the result should necessarily determine which side of the team they support, and also think it's only fair to look at T1 Austin last year.

The facts the driver are faced with at the point they decide to run their oppo wide with the aim of gaining advantage are :- (I'm ignoring the brake issue as it was a known quantity and so is largely irrelevant.

1) There is a hightened chance contact let's call that 50/50
2) If there is contact there is a change you'll come worse off' I'll call that 55/45 because I assume the drivers know the angles that present the strongest parts of their car, but they don't know completely what the oppo car will do
3) If contact does or doesn't occur, you stand the risk of penalties.

So all in all, the action of pushing out wide is highly risky and slim that you will become better off, and nearly entirely impacted by the action by the oppo at this point, and I guess they make their judgment based on their guess on how the oppo will react.

In Austin Ham pushed Rosberg out wide, just as badly as Ros did in Aus, but Rosberg backed out to avoid contact. There're no damage and also no penalty for Ham, Rosberg did the same thing and got damage and a penalty.

I just put it all down to luck really. Austin could've ended up like Austria , and as a result Rosberg might have won the championship, if he'd just held the outside line but turned. Similarly Ros this week could've nicked Ham a puncture or just squeezed him and gone on to win and extend his lead.

My view they are as much racer's as each, but through luck or judgment, Ham seems to manage his "when's" better
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Sorry I disagree. Rosberg intended contact, Hamilton only ever intends to explore the track limits to their max.

Big difference.
 
Well they made contact as Ham turned late into the corner and the point they turned the car in is almost identical and both were way off the apex. The only difference is Ham turned in too at Austria whereas in Austin Rosberg bailed out.

And they made contact, they both have done it, but Hams come out better both times

https://youtu.be/wZhh2Kk2MUk
 
In that clip, you can see that they were side by side and Rosberg could see Hamilton.

This weekend, Hamilton was almost a car length in front (before Rosberg caught up a bit because he didn't bother breaking) and there was no way for Hamilton to see him. You can't push someone wide when you're behind them...

Also, Rosberg has mentioned he was inside, it's his corner. That time they both went off earlier in the year, Hamilton was inside, Rosberg just pushed him off the track...
 
Not watched the race, have watched the incident. Lewis was coming past, Nico knew it and in utter frustration pulled a stupid move, Which ultimately cost him.

His fault completely. He's driving in real life how I drive on Gran turismo when I cba to drive properly...
 
mbmbmb said:
Well they made contact as Ham turned late into the corner and the point they turned the car in is almost identical and both were way off the apex. The only difference is Ham turned in too at Austria whereas in Austin Rosberg bailed out.

And they made contact, they both have done it, but Hams come out better both times

https://youtu.be/wZhh2Kk2MUk
Click to expand...

It's not really a comparable example for several reasons:

  1. It's wet
  2. Both are miles off line, so it was always highly likely that one or both would exit out wide
  3. Hamilton actually turned in in this case :p
  4. It's lap 1 and generally a "racing incident" free-for-all in terms of steward investigation
  5. Hamilton was in front, going into the corner, which is moreso important because if Rosberg was in front, he would have the right to dictate the line and the onus would be on Hamilton to back out.

I can see what Rosberg was trying to do in Austria, but the point that crucified him was that he made no attempt to make the corner until there was contact. You can't just drive straight at a corner on the inside until your rival has no track left. What he should have done is left the room and squeezed him out on exit, then he'd have bags of plausible deniability ("I had no grip and drifted wide on exit" etc.) as per what Hamilton has done several times.

As other have said, Rosberg seems to be truly afraid of a fair fight, he doesn't want to be wheel to wheel with Hamilton and thus does some hairbrained things to stop it from happening.
 
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AndyCr15 said:
In that clip, you can see that they were side by side and Rosberg could see Hamilton.

This weekend, Hamilton was almost a car length in front (before Rosberg caught up a bit because he didn't bother breaking) and there was no way for Hamilton to see him. You can't push someone wide when you're behind them...

Also, Rosberg has mentioned he was inside, it's his corner. That time they both went off earlier in the year, Hamilton was inside, Rosberg just pushed him off the track...
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Yep it doesn't matter where Lewis is, the inside, or the outside, according to Rosberg he's always in the right and Lewis is always in the wrong. The guy is a complete joke.
 
Gayjin said:
I can see what Rosberg was trying to do in Austria, but the point that crucified him was that he made no attempt to make the corner until there was contact. You can't just drive straight at a corner on the inside until your rival has no track left. What he should have done is left the room and squeezed him out on exit, then he'd have bags of plausible deniability ("I had no grip and drifted wide on exit" etc.) as per what Hamilton has done several times.
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That's what he should have done but the problem with trying to do that, is that he needed to be ahead of Hamilton going into and through the corner to drive him out wide on the exit, which he wasn't. Hamilton was already ahead going in so the only option IMO at that point was for Rosberg to concede the place at that point and concentrate on getting the best line possible out of the corner to potentially give himself an opportunity to retake the position down into the next turn.
 
Its becoming boring now. The CT rubbish is just embarrassing. You are basically saying the whole team is in on it. That's hard working people in Brackley that you are calling liars. Why don't you go down there and tell them to their face what they are.
 
leaskovski said:
Its becoming boring now. The CT rubbish is just embarrassing. You are basically saying the whole team is in on it. That's hard working people in Brackley that you are calling liars. Why don't you go down there and tell them to their face what they are.
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The whole team don't need to be, just those at the top...and yes, those at the top are liars. That braking nonsense was complete rubbish and never to be mentioned again after the initial interview.
 
The thing with this incident is, i don't think Rosberg would've driven like that if the car in front was a Ferrari or Red Bull for example. He just really hates being beaten by Hamilton.
 
There definitely would've been a harsher penalty though. This is what annoys me about blue on blue crashes. Why should they go easier on them just because they are in the same team??

I'm looking forward to Silverstone though as it will be a good indication of who they think was to blame. Much like Nico conceding to his main rival at Monaco without a single murmur from him. I know he was slower there but i doubt Hamilton would've made it as easy. :p

It will be interesting if say Hamilton is in the lead at Silverstone and Rosberg is attacking. Will they tell him to hold station behind despite being championship leader?? Its got the makings of an entertaining race for this alone before we even see the rest of the on track action. I cant wait! :D
 
Mercedes won't openly go down the route of issuing team orders mid race. They will just continue to manipulate the race through the strategy and pit stops.
 
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