Auto or manual

ericmcn said:
That guy wouldn't touch an auto box, you clearly don't get it do you - go send him a message and see what he says.

I know cars quite well, most of the ones he overtook would be autos, certainly the Dom Pérignon Rose Gold for breakfast and cant drive for *** ones. If you doubt me just go ask him or get the log book from that day
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So this guy did it in somewhere of the 8.30 region (being kind as you could argue 9 mins depending on him costing in)

A guy i have followed for some years in a mk2 ttrs, used to do it in a golf (he has nothing done apart from running decent tyres and pad changes, listed in car specs) does it considerably faster with an auto box
must be impossible right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iKQcg7K9zY

If you watch a lot of ring vids you see that there are some very exotic cars limping round compared to the speeds the guys that run the ring a lot will do it many times faster

And anyway making out that ring vids prove how a manual is better for the 99.9% of the population that doesn't do tracks is a bit more than a stretch

Why did they ban cvt auto boxes in F1
Maybe David coulthard can give us a clue, listen to his comments in this

https://badgergp.com/insta-banned-f1-tech-that-was-banned-immediately/

If we want to use track based logic then autos are better right?
 
Like Kubica, the ttrs guy is probably using the paddles though, which probably extrapolates to what kind of safety/control margin is lost by the average driver on their drive to work, having the box in auto mode; a trade-off of convenience
is there a dumbing down of driving skills (autonomous cars being the end game) with the introduction of auto-boxes, for some/disabled, obviously it is a necessity.

Yes think of a figther airplane which could not be flown without a computer, but there you have some benefit in winning the dog fight and concentrating on other relevant mental tasks - composing an email say.
 
jpaul said:
Like Kubica, the ttrs guy is probably using the paddles though, which probably extrapolates to what kind of safety/control margin is lost by the average driver on their drive to work, having the box in auto mode; a trade-off of convenience
is there a dumbing down of driving skills (autonomous cars being the end game) with the introduction of auto-boxes, for some/disabled, obviously it is a necessity.
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The introduction of auto boxes? They've been around since before the second world war!
 
jpaul said:
Like Kubica, the ttrs guy is probably using the paddles though, which probably extrapolates to what kind of safety/control margin is lost by the average driver on their drive to work, having the box in auto mode; a trade-off of convenience
is there a dumbing down of driving skills (autonomous cars being the end game) with the introduction of auto-boxes, for some/disabled, obviously it is a necessity.

Yes think of a figther airplane which could not be flown without a computer, but there you have some benefit in winning the dog fight and concentrating on other relevant mental tasks - composing an email say.
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Nothing to do with that. Its to challenge the manual must be better co someone is fast round the ring nonsense.

How much safety / control margin does the average driver need on a daily basis. In 20 years driving I am struggling to think of a single occasion where a manual box has somehow given me uber control.
I can think of a single occasion where the opposite happened, I was being lazy and hadn't changed down as normal, the corner was icy and as the engine was trying to push on when I hit some ice it didnt react nicely. The DSC sorted it out, ebfore I had any chance to react, I assume an auto would probably have changed down compared to me being lazy that day.

I suppose if your always selecting the perfect gear on the basis of you may need to slam the accelerator and gun it then an auto may not be the best bet.
I used to know quite a lot of emergency / first responders and they always used to go on that more speed was normally the worst thing to do, and this stuff about accelerating away from an incident never seemed to match reality.

I look at it like this. If a manual box will genuinely make a difference to your on the road progress your probably into dangerous driving territory.
 
jpaul said:
Like Kubica, the ttrs guy is probably using the paddles though, which probably extrapolates to what kind of safety/control margin is lost by the average driver on their drive to work, having the box in auto mode; a trade-off of convenience
is there a dumbing down of driving skills (autonomous cars being the end game) with the introduction of auto-boxes, for some/disabled, obviously it is a necessity.

Yes think of a figther airplane which could not be flown without a computer, but there you have some benefit in winning the dog fight and concentrating on other relevant mental tasks - composing an email say.
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I struggled a bit after switching because manual had me reading the road ahead better but overall I think I'm freer to observe more with an automatic so it balances out though I can see some people being lazier instead. That said I nearly hit a deer tonight which I could probably have reacted to better but I had a long shift at work and mentally fatigued :(
 
I'd forgotten about Kubica's crash, his new nurburg m2 video was innocently chose to show how someone used an auto there,
his articulation, in retrospect, had looked unusual.
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
If a manual box will genuinely make a difference to your on the road progress your probably into dangerous driving territory.
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I cant say that's true, I have driven Autos and manuals and now my commute is mainly on B roads and I find with a good manual which I currently have its far better to drive and the feedback you get from the gear shifts is something totally absent with an auto and when I need to overtake numpties, which is mostly every day I never have to worry about what will happen or can I complete this manoeuvre safety which is what I would would feel like with driving an auto with its unpredictable behaviour

I have a NA car so a very linear reaction between every gear change especially between gears say 2 and 4 with its close ratios which make all these B road antics a breeze

There is no lag and instant throttle response. Most auto boxes sap power from the engine also before it even moves and they tend to be heavier as well. Then again if I was driving in the city a manual would be a chore and I would just get a ZF8hp auto or something
 
Nasher said:
F1 is a whole different game. But they should go back to manuals as its more interesting and takes more skill.
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I stopped watching F1 about a decade ago, its a snooze fest, 1.6L V6... please

I used to watch it before that and was at the Melbourne GP in 2001

1. Michael Schumacher Germany Ferrari-Ferrari 58 laps 1hr 38mins 26.533secs 187.465kph
2. David Coulthard Britain McLaren-Mercedes +01.717secs
3. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Ferrari-Ferrari +33.491secs

Coulthard and Irvine were racing also, now that was good and the sound of the V10s with 18,500 rpm redlines even with ear defenders on was...well interesting but even that era was pale in comparison to the V12s raced by Senna and co back in the 1990s, no stupid driver aids back then - miss a corner doing 130mph and your toast

F1 now is as interesting as making a cup of hot soup
 
Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
So this guy did it in somewhere of the 8.30 region (being kind as you could argue 9 mins depending on him costing in)

A guy i have followed for some years in a mk2 ttrs, used to do it in a golf (he has nothing done apart from running decent tyres and pad changes, listed in car specs) does it considerably faster with an auto box
must be impossible right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iKQcg7K9zY

If you watch a lot of ring vids you see that there are some very exotic cars limping round compared to the speeds the guys that run the ring a lot will do it many times faster

And anyway making out that ring vids prove how a manual is better for the 99.9% of the population that doesn't do tracks is a bit more than a stretch

Why did they ban cvt auto boxes in F1
Maybe David coulthard can give us a clue, listen to his comments in this

https://badgergp.com/insta-banned-f1-tech-that-was-banned-immediately/

If we want to use track based logic then autos are better right?
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CVTs are only for people who don't care about how a car handles or drives and only want to get from A to B, its a horrid transmission
 
theone8181 said:
I thought Audi's still changed up? A guy I work with swears blind his RS3 changes up even when I'm auto.
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My S3 would shift regardless of being in M or not. At least it did on the dyno, made it impossible to test properly unless you were willing to run it in 7th!
 
Jonnycoupe said:
I said EV, not HEV nor is a Prius strictly a CVT anyway.
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Its a CVT, just the same as the Lexus GS450h and 600hL use a CVT box, albeit able to handle far more torque and in the case of the 600hL drive 4 wheels.. the common denominator is that electric motor
 
Conscript said:
What? It doesn't matter what he'd choose to drive, how is that even relevant to my point? You've used a video of him driving a manual fast to prove they are better than autos, all I've done is pointed out that it's a fallacy because he'd be even quicker in an auto.

"You clearly don't get it", oh do bore off. Look at the car in my sig and read my posts in this thread...I clearly do love and appreciate manual gearboxes, and I'll always gravitate to one for fun. But I'm not going to sit and pretend that they are quicker or objectively superior, when they quite clearly are not. And I'm just as happy to call out people claiming they are, as I am to defend the experience of driving one.
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He was driving a manual very very quick and with great skill, the worthless car jibes is just sour grapes. Cars of this era don't have or need face time, 20 driver aids and launch control to help it along. They do need a good driver at the wheel of course.

And this talk of people not going flat out on the ring is true of course but I find it pretty hard to believe that on that occasion during his lap 99% of the drivers were thinking of having tea with their auntie...the fire breathing EVO a case in point

To me it kinda backs up that soulless white goods feel modern cars have, they look great (some of them) but they have no character and are jammed too full of technical gibberish that takes away from the whole experience of driving a car in the first place
 
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