Auto or manual

[Rroff]

I thought Audi's still changed up? A guy I work with swears blind his RS3 changes up even when I'm auto.

Mine (Nissan) will shift up (or down) automatically beyond a certain point but will respect manual inputs within the range of what would generally be valid inputs in a manual car - might be some edge cases where a very good driver knows better than the auto which it might interfere with. At least in mine you can't disable the auto entirely.

and when I need to overtake numpties, which is mostly every day I never have to worry about what will happen or can I complete this manoeuvre safety which is what I would would feel like with driving an auto with its unpredictable behaviour

I can't even recall one instance in the last ~10K miles or so where I've felt the auto hasn't performed when it comes to needing to overtake or some other unexpected situation. The only unresponsiveness has come from the turbo which sadly is a bit unpredictable on my truck - frustrating because 80% of the time it is very good for a diesel but that 20% of the time it lags and while not as bad as a diesel generally reminds you it is.

EDIT: Have to say it helps a lot that it is a V6 with plenty of torque and a decent power band - it would be far less satisfying if it was a regular 4 pot.

 

[Simon]

I thought Audi's still changed up? A guy I work with swears blind his RS3 changes up even when I'm auto.

Oh god knows then. Sounds crap if so. But really not many would hit the limiter but incase you do then a auto change isn’t the end of world.

still you have control and can pre change just like a manual

 

[Simon]

Not exactly your bog standard Auto, but the Koenigsegg lightspeed auto is impressive for shifting speed.

That gearbox is a work of art

 

[Rroff]

Oh god knows then. Sounds crap if so

My (Nissan) will give you a lot of freedom if you take manual control but only so far - if it thinks you are straying outside of what would be a good range of normal manual driving it will impose itself again.

 

[Howard]

In manual mode, mine will only shift (down) if the engine speed gets too low. Otherwise you can bounce it off the limiter or whatever if you want. It’ll stay in gear.

Strangely, it was reprogrammed in the facelift to do things like kick down, which isn’t helpful.

 

[Nasher]

That just sounds annoying. If you took it to a track and it does it's own thing, it probably won't be quicker than a manual.

The autos on track/racing/F1 cars have no nannies like that, they do what they are told.

 

[[TW]Fox]

That just sounds annoying. If you took it to a track and it does it's own thing, it probably won't be quicker than a manual.

The autos on track/racing/F1 cars have no nannies like that, they do what they are told.

What are you talking about now?

 

[Kenai]

Mine will only shift itself in manual mode if the engine is about to stall or you're holding it at the rev limiter. Neither are things I tried to achieve when I had a manual anyway, so it's not a particularly intrusive behaviour.

 

[Rroff]

That just sounds annoying. If you took it to a track and it does it's own thing, it probably won't be quicker than a manual.

The autos on track/racing/F1 cars have no nannies like that, they do what they are told.

I'd say like 99% of the range of inputs that are valid in a manual are accommodated by the auto, at least on mine, maybe if you were an exceptionally talented manual driver it might be a different story. It only nannies me if, as above, the engine speed falls too far or on mine if you get too much into the upper end of the rev range/limit.

 

[Conscript]

He was driving a manual very very quick and with great skill

No one ever said he wasn't. We only said that showing a video of someone driving a manual car quickly with great skill was not proof that they are quicker than autos.

the worthless car jibes is just sour grapes.

???
Who made "worthless car jibes"? I certainly didn't. Nor did I see anyone else doing so.

Cars of this era don't have or need face time, 20 driver aids and launch control to help it along. They do need a good driver at the wheel of course.

No one argued otherwise, because it's all irrelevant to your initial point which we were discussing.

And this talk of people not going flat out on the ring is true of course but I find it pretty hard to believe that on that occasion during his lap 99% of the drivers were thinking of having tea with their auntie...the fire breathing EVO a case in point

But again, there's too many variables at play for you to claim that because the guy in a video overtook someone else on a track while driving a manual car, that manual gearboxes are therefore quicker and superior. Driver commitment was only one of them which was mentioned. There's also engine power, tyre choice, driver skill, experience, track knowledge....all of these could be factoring in to his impressive driving and making him faster than everyone else. But you've essentially boiled it down to "he's driving a manual, therefore manuals = faster".

To me it kinda backs up that soulless white goods feel modern cars have, they look great (some of them) but they have no character and are jammed too full of technical gibberish that takes away from the whole experience of driving a car in the first place

Irrelevant. We were talking about the the shifting speed of manual vs. automatic gearboxes...a discussion you initiated remember, when you posted a video of yourself accelerating quickly and claiming that such an act would be impossible to recreate with an auto box.
Which is demonstrably nonsense, so now you've gone off on a subjective tangent about modern car character.

 

[paradigm]

That just sounds annoying. If you took it to a track and it does it's own thing, it probably won't be quicker than a manual.

The autos on track/racing/F1 cars have no nannies like that, they do what they are told.

Two things, firstly, regarding the Audi boxes, whilst they can't be forced to hang onto a gear indefinitely bouncing off the limiter, they will only shift when the power band dictates a necessity (and thus is intrinsically linked to throttle input). Therefore driving a corner with anything other than a digital on/off throttle mentality will result in no mid-corner shifts, just like a manual box!

Secondly, most of the "autos" you find on racing cars are semi-automatics (usually automated manuals, be they pneumatically, hydraulically or electronically actuated), certainly the ones I've driven (all of PalmerSport's fleet, inc F3000 and F3, and a friend's Reynard chassis hill-climb car) have a clutch pedal for setting off from a standstill. Once rolling there is no need for the clutch however.

 

[Howard]

Mine will only shift itself .... you're holding it at the rev limiter. Neither are things I tried to achieve .....

Yeah yeah. I've seen you in McDonald's car parks.

 

[Rroff]

Secondly, most of the "autos" you find on racing cars are semi-automatics (usually automated manuals), certainly the ones I've driven (all of PalmerSport's fleet, inc F3000 and F3) have a clutch pedal for setting off from a standstill. Once rolling there is no need for the clutch however.

On my truck if you come to a stop when using manual ranges it drops to 1st gear and won't change up itself on starting away again - if you don't manually shift up it will just hit the limiter and eventually go into limp mode I believe (not actually tried it).

(In all other situations it will eventually change up itself).

 

[Kenai]

Yeah yeah. I've seen you in McDonald's car parks.

You must be mistaken, I wouldn't lower myself below a Halfords car park.

 

[paradigm]

You must be mistaken, I wouldn't lower myself below a Halfords car park.

Osmosis mode, activate!

 

[Frozennova]

Two things, firstly, regarding the Audi boxes, whilst they can't be forced to hang onto a gear indefinitely bouncing off the limiter, they will only shift when the power band dictates a necessity (and thus is intrinsically linked to throttle input). Therefore driving a corner with anything other than a digital on/off throttle mentality will result in no mid-corner shifts, just like a manual box!

Secondly, most of the "autos" you find on racing cars are semi-automatics (usually automated manuals, be they pneumatically, hydraulically or electronically actuated), certainly the ones I've driven (all of PalmerSport's fleet, inc F3000 and F3, and a friend's Reynard chassis hill-climb car) have a clutch pedal for setting off from a standstill. Once rolling there is no need for the clutch however.

I'm not sure some people find this hard to understand.

Every auto I've ever driven does exactly what I want it do in any given situation.

They still shift entirely at the drivers command based on their inputs.

If anything it promotes better driving because it teaches you to be smoother and more think more about your inputs

 

[JamesRJ]

For engaging driving experience manual all day long.

My daily is an manual M240i, had its serviced last week and was given an M430i as a courtesy as BMW has managed to snap the oil filter in half. The 430 was auto with flappy paddles. In heavy traffic commuting the auto was great as was just so easy to stop and start but on the open road having some spirited driving I really missed the manual box.

 

[jpaul]

but on the open road having some spirited driving I really missed the manual box.

even using it in manual/flappy priority mode. ?

After watching the Koenesburg light speed video, it suggested their box provides a blended/interpolated drive as the shift occurs, which the usual dsg will not,
that addresses one of the auto concerns I would have, where you cannot control the engagement to ensure torque continuity,
are most racing cars equipped similarly with such (blending) boxes.

 

[Rroff]

that addresses one of the auto concerns I would have, where you cannot control the engagement to ensure torque continuity,

What are you actually saying here? (I might be misunderstanding what you are talking about) I don't notice any continuity in power output at least when mine changes it is so fast and so smooth.

EDIT: Ah as I have a torque converter I guess that makes some difference here.

 

[jpaul]

What are you actually saying here? (I might be misunderstanding what you are talking about) I don't notice any continuity in power output at least when mine changes it is so fast and so smooth.

you watched the video - yes ?
I mean in a manual you don't just release clutch, whipping your foot away, you do it sympathetically to preserve the drive/comfort/adherence (you can feel through the hydraulic steering),
the lightspeed box addresses that continuity ..... I don't know, maybe as torque convertor helps too.
So, even on the topic of auto boxes switching fast, that crtiteria alone, is inadequate, and, there is the question of the continuity of drive.

loosely, your truck probably has a lot of momentum too.