Poll: Azerbaijan Grand Prix 2022, Baku - Race 8

[chrismscotland]

Its not as if the teams couldn't see the porpoising coming, its nothing new with ground effect cars and I know a lot has been made of Adrian Newey having experience of it during his early career working in CART.
Surely someone like Pat Symonds (F1 Technical Officer) with his wealth of experience could have seen this too?

 

[utajoker]

But they are currently the only ones loudly moaning about it, other teams are working around it fine.
4 weeks ago Merc were confident they had a handle on it and could work around it (Spain) - now they realise they don't they've started playing up the back issues

do you remember a few years ago when helmut marko threatened to pull out of f1 because redull where so far behind...

 

[iamtheoneneo]

Its not as if the teams couldn't see the porpoising coming, its nothing new with ground effect cars and I know a lot has been made of Adrian Newey having experience of it during his early career working in CART.
Surely someone like Pat Symonds (F1 Technical Officer) with his wealth of experience could have seen this too?

Hes already said its up to teams to get their **** together.

Pat Symonds, Chief Technical Officer at F1, said, ‘F1 and the FIA don’t change rules. Anyone who’s worked in sportscars or worked in Formula 1 for a long while knows the phenomena. It’s fixable within the framework of the rules and the technology allowed on the cars now. As it always has been, the secret is to minimise the instability while keeping the performance.’

 

[Scam]

Did we find out why Hamilton’s seat “went cold”?

Yeah I was wondering about that? Wouldn’t be surprised if they’ve wrecked some nerves in his spine tbh!

f they start dictating that all teams have to have x ride height then this season is ruined.

I don’t care for dictating anything. I just think ground effect is daft if the cars bounce around like nobody’s business. Why not active suspension or something that can suppress it?

 

[chrismscotland]

Hes already said its up to teams to get their **** together.

Pat Symonds, Chief Technical Officer at F1, said, ‘F1 and the FIA don’t change rules. Anyone who’s worked in sportscars or worked in Formula 1 for a long while knows the phenomena. It’s fixable within the framework of the rules and the technology allowed on the cars now. As it always has been, the secret is to minimise the instability while keeping the performance.’

Completely agree with him

 

[Deleted member 651465]

Mercedes are making the most out of the issue in the hope that rules are changed, if the problem isn't that bad for the other 9 teams then it's tough luck in my opinion. Adapt your car if you designed it with flaws.

So when Merc came out with the best engine in 2014, it was tough luck? Adapt your car or stfu?

I recall lots of people crying to neuter their dominance and that was purely performance. This is a health issue… not acute but potentially chronic.

Absolutely agree that Merc need to adapt the design but to claim they’re “making the most of it” shows you know zero about whole body vibration / the ill health effects from repeated trauma to the spine.

This place cracks me up sometimes with the double standards.

 

[uscool]

So when Merc came out with the best engine in 2014, it was tough luck? Adapt your car or stfu?

I recall lots of people crying to neuter their dominance and that was purely performance. This is a health issue… not acute but potentially chronic.

Absolutely agree that Merc need to adapt the design but to claim they’re “making the most of it” shows you know zero about whole body vibration / the ill health effects from repeated trauma to the spine.

This place cracks me up sometimes with the double standards.

Can they not just increase the ride height ? While they try to figure it out seems Merc decided they rather not lose track position over drivers health ?

 

[MissChief]

Its not as if the teams couldn't see the porpoising coming, its nothing new with ground effect cars and I know a lot has been made of Adrian Newey having experience of it during his early career working in CART.
Surely someone like Pat Symonds (F1 Technical Officer) with his wealth of experience could have seen this too?

Many teams didn’t. Wind tunnel testing is limited by regulations to 150km/h wind speed (I think, happy to be corrected) and the porpoising only really becomes a thing at higher speeds as the aero loads increase and the ride height reduces. Ground effect was last used decades ago, if the teams are lucky they might have a few staff who were there and knew of the phenomenon and wanted the current aero staff of the risks.

 

[englishpremier]

so maybe they should. He seems to be the only one on the grid to have these adverse issues. So perhaps its about time the excuses stopped from Merc and they actually fixed it...even if it sacrifices speed.

I'm not sure what season you've been watching but Sainz right from the get go has been talking about the issues too. It's not only Mercedes drives that the cars are causing back issues.

Doesn't mean the FIA should intervene this season, but just pointing out that others have spoken out about it.

 

[cu3ed]

Yea all the cars on those straights where bouncing like mad. Could hear those floors bottoming out badly as well.

 

[koolpc]

All that money and Merc still have a bouncy castle car!

 

[Mr Jack]

Probably the weakest race so far this season. Technical failures combined with the timing of the second VSC neutered the race.

 

[Stumble Bum]

So when Merc came out with the best engine in 2014, it was tough luck? Adapt your car or stfu?

I recall lots of people crying to neuter their dominance and that was purely performance. This is a health issue… not acute but potentially chronic.

Absolutely agree that Merc need to adapt the design but to claim they’re “making the most of it” shows you know zero about whole body vibration / the ill health effects from repeated trauma to the spine.

This place cracks me up sometimes with the double standards.

No surprise this is coming from you lol. Rent free in your head.

When have I ever complained about Mercedes Engines? Stop with the pathetic whataboutism.

Mercedes can reduce the porpoising if they really want to but it will compromise their performance, much like the other teams. Tough luck, redesign your flawed car.

If Mercedes had the Red Bull car and vice versa I wonder what Mercedes would be saying then?

 

[hartgeh3]

Merc/Toto need to stfu lol

 

[Mr Jack]

Mercedes can reduce the porpoising if they really want to but it will compromise their performance, much like the other teams. Tough luck, redesign your flawed car.

If Mercedes had the Red Bull car and vice versa I wonder what Mercedes would be saying then?

It's not a Mercedes problem. ALL the cars have far too much bouncing about, Red Bull included.

Ricciardo was complaining after the race. KMag is complaining of nerve problems in his neck and jaw damage. Sainz has consulted a specialist about long term harm. The drivers issued a collective complaint about it.

 

[sparkymark75]

Did we find out why Hamilton’s seat “went cold”?

Probably just him losing the feeling in his ass from the constant spine smashing!

 

[Locky]

Merc/Toto need to stfu lol

Insightful post 10 outa 10..
Lewis is a doubt for Canada with a spine injury apparently

 

[Quartz]

Lewis is a doubt for Canada with a spine injury apparently

Wow. Cue early retirement?

 

[Stumble Bum]

It's not a Mercedes problem. ALL the cars have far too much bouncing about, Red Bull included.

Ricciardo was complaining after the race. KMag is complaining of nerve problems in his neck and jaw damage. Sainz has consulted a specialist about long term harm. The drivers issued a collective complaint about it.

They can raise their ride height to vastly reduce the issue but they refuse to do so, if you want to blame anyone then it's Mercedes not caring about their drivers.

The ground effect is an interesting technical aspect this year and I'm glad that it's really making the designers think, we want to see them pushed and have to innovate, it's a great part of the sport in my opinion and I really hope the FIA don't cave in. As previously said many teams are managing it quite well so it is possible within the rules to solve the problem. That is what F1 should be about.

 

[Mr Jack]

The ground effect is an interesting technical aspect this year and I'm glad that it's really making the designers think, we want to see them pushed and have to innovate, it's a great part of the sport in my opinion and I really hope the FIA don't cave in. As previously said many teams are managing it quite well so it is possible within the rules to solve the problem. That is what F1 should be about.

There's no need to remove ground effect all they have to do is let them build marginally more complex suspension systems. The problem isn't ground effect, it's the combined combination of removing the bigger tyres that have been a critical part of the suspension system of F1 cars for decades and massively restricting the complexity and design of the suspension components. The cars are just too stiff.