Bahrain GP 2009 - Race 4/17

Type_R · 27 Apr 2009 at 10:04

CS||nuTs said:
Most will.

Well if RBR have then definitely most will have done

KiNgPiN83 · 27 Apr 2009 at 10:22

Did anyone see the state of Alonso yesterday? They had to pretty much drag him out the car after the race because his water bottle failed and he was really dehydrated. :eek:

I hope Mclaren don't get a stupid penalty for lying to get points that were already theirs. I can understand their last big punishment. But obtaining documents on an oponents car or stupidly lying to stewards for no apparent reason are a world away from each other.

MarcLister · 27 Apr 2009 at 11:15

dannyjo22 said:
I cant see it, plus it's at barcelona which is always a dull race because teams have so much information already about running on the circuit. Hopefully with the lack of testing this year Barcelona can finally chuck up a decent GP.

I always find the Spanish GP weird. In the past the teams used to do so much testing over the winter at Barcelona then turn up for the GP and not be as fast as they were. :confused:

dannyjo22 said:
Certainly not as bad as glock and much of trulli's trouble was simply being on the wrong tyre for far too long. I'm not a huge fan of this mandatory tyre ruling. I'd rather they all just raced on the best tyre for them and their fuel load.

Amen.

Eriedor · 27 Apr 2009 at 11:20

arknor said:
smooth drivers have never really been the fastest though johnny herbert was one of them.

senna and schumacher both constantly made corrections in corners because they were generally on the limit and needed to correct micro slides.

they were both constantly blipping the throttle aswell instead of trying to be smooth

Jackie Steward is a big believer in the smooth driving style and it seemed to work well for him.

Only drop the accelerator when you know you're not going to take it off again.

dannyjo22 · 27 Apr 2009 at 11:48

Never did prost any harm either not ragging the car. These drivers seem to have far less failures as well than say a kimi or a villeneuve.

arknor · 27 Apr 2009 at 11:59

Eriedor said:
Jackie Steward is a big believer in the smooth driving style and it seemed to work well for him.

Only drop the accelerator when you know you're not going to take it off again.

its not as fast though

(that video explains it with telemetry data and driver comments)

Wang Computer · 27 Apr 2009 at 12:15

arknor said:
smooth drivers have never really been the fastest though johnny herbert was one of them.

senna and schumacher both constantly made corrections in corners because they were generally on the limit and needed to correct micro slides.

they were both constantly blipping the throttle aswell instead of trying to be smooth

Four time world champion Alain Prost begs to differ.

JRS · 27 Apr 2009 at 12:18

KiNgPiN83 said:
I hope Mclaren don't get a stupid penalty for lying to get points that were already theirs. I can understand their last big punishment. But obtaining documents on an oponents car or stupidly lying to stewards for no apparent reason are a world away from each other.

I agree, but the fact that they lied to the stewards while (effectively) on probation with the FIA post-SpyGate....their timing wasn't great

Hopefully the FIA will just say "One more thing and you're banned" and leave it at that. The last thing this forum needs is McLaren to get a few race ban, the wailing will reach critical mass....

dannyjo22 · 27 Apr 2009 at 12:19

arknor said:
senna and schumacher both constantly made corrections in corners because they were generally on the limit and needed to correct micro slides.

they were both constantly blipping the throttle aswell instead of trying to be smooth

All that clip shows is Shumacher and Senna had different styles. Herbert says Senna was constantly blipping the throttle where MS would brake and then get straight back onto the throttle. Herbert even says the blipping that is used by most driver was then used to a greater extent by senna. The traces show MS isn't doing that.

MS is actually the one whose smoother (on the accelerator) because he's not coming off the throttle as much but he's correcting the slides with more steering.

So your wrong in your earlier statement MS and Senna didn't have similar blipping styles.

dalin80 · 27 Apr 2009 at 13:20

JRS said:
I agree, but the fact that they lied to the stewards while (effectively) on probation with the FIA post-SpyGate....their timing wasn't great

Hopefully the FIA will just say "One more thing and you're banned" and leave it at that. The last thing this forum needs is McLaren to get a few race ban, the wailing will reach critical mass....

especially considering porky-pieing to the stewards (who have got far more wrong themselves in recent history) is hardly a new or major affair, i expect that every time a issue is investigated the drivers supplement there version of events a bit.

this issue should have died at the oz gp the fact that it has dragged on this long only damages f1 as a whole.

Zip · 27 Apr 2009 at 13:22

WTF happend to Webber?

All ive seen is the results/

Dup · 27 Apr 2009 at 13:24

Zip said:
WTF happend to Webber?

All ive seen is the results/

His shrimp ran off with his Barbie so he had to resort to Ken for the weekend.

That or Sutil blocked him in quali and Webber started near the back and didn't make much of it.

arknor · 27 Apr 2009 at 13:50

Wang Computer said:
Four time world champion Alain Prost begs to differ.

with a seven times world champion?

All that clip shows is Shumacher and Senna had different styles. Herbert says Senna was constantly blipping the throttle where MS would brake and then get straight back onto the throttle. Herbert even says the blipping that is used by most driver was then used to a greater extent by senna. The traces show MS isn't doing that.

watch the senna qualifying vids on youtube he is quite similar to schumacher to an extent more so than he is to the smooth drivers like button/herbert

chumpit · 27 Apr 2009 at 14:07

arknor said:
with a seven times world champion?
watch the senna qualifying vids on youtube he is quite similar to schumacher to an extent more so than he is to the smooth drivers like button/herbert

I really don't think the driving style matters in the long run. I believe that the pressure handling abilities of the champions are what won them their championships.
Being able to put out lap after lap whilst under immense pressure, is what wins races tbh.

lopkinfop · 27 Apr 2009 at 14:37

Over Clocker said:
Does anyone have any info on upgrades coming on each car before Barca?

Cheers

http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/

That of any use?

dannyjo22 · 27 Apr 2009 at 14:45

arknor said:
watch the senna qualifying vids on youtube he is quite similar to schumacher to an extent more so than he is to the smooth drivers like button/herbert

Thats not what you said though, you said they used the throttles in a similiar way which they dont. Its very hard to tell from youtube videos whether they have the same style.

You would need a telemetry readout to be able to judge how smooth they are. Judging by Herberts words MS is actually a lot smoother on the throttle than most, he just carries more speed and makes many more corrections. Alonso seems to do similar.

MS was miles ahead of any other driver in understanding what the car was doing underneath him. I remember the first time he talked of friction circle. F1 racing then started asking others drivers what they knew about it, they just got blank stares.

Over Clocker · 27 Apr 2009 at 14:56

lopkinfop said:
http://www.formula1.com/news/technical/

That of any use?

Nice one cheers

sunama · 27 Apr 2009 at 16:05

chumpit said:
I really don't think the driving style matters in the long run. I believe that the pressure handling abilities of the champions are what won them their championships.
Being able to put out lap after lap whilst under immense pressure, is what wins races tbh.

Indeed.

When you are under pressure or perhaps leading a race, right at the start, your heart is beating like mad and you tend to tense up.

As an example, when I used to go-kart a lot, I could put up some of the fastest times on the track, when I was not leading. However, the minute I overtook the leader and hit the front, I would tense up as I was thinking too much, which effected my laptime adversely, which allowed the driver behind me to get close, which in turn would make me even more tense because I was unable to pull away from him in the same way that I caught and passed him.

People who dont race perhaps dont realise just how pressure can effect your performance in the car. This is why I hold the likes of Hamilton in very high regard as he was able to perform at a high level, right from the word go.

jbstans · 27 Apr 2009 at 16:30

sunama said:
I actually thought that this was one of the better showings from Trulli, as he didnt fade and at least in the 1st and 3rd stints of the race he was able to either catch the guy in front or maintain his position.

Normally, Trulli qualifies fast and then in the race, he tends to be horrendously slower than the cars around him who qualified slower than him.

True, it's just that he was so much faster than everyone in quali, even when fuel adjusted I was expecting him to take the race b ythe scruff of the neck and just disappear til the first pit

NathanE · 27 Apr 2009 at 16:58

sunama said:
Indeed.

When you are under pressure or perhaps leading a race, right at the start, your heart is beating like mad and you tend to tense up.

As an example, when I used to go-kart a lot, I could put up some of the fastest times on the track, when I was not leading. However, the minute I overtook the leader and hit the front, I would tense up as I was thinking too much, which effected my laptime adversely, which allowed the driver behind me to get close, which in turn would make me even more tense because I was unable to pull away from him in the same way that I caught and passed him.

People who dont race perhaps dont realise just how pressure can effect your performance in the car. This is why I hold the likes of Hamilton in very high regard as he was able to perform at a high level, right from the word go.

I play racing sims online a lot and I totally agree about this. Leading a race is not easy... even when you know it's just a game! Sometimes though you are able to get into a zone where nobody can touch you. Have to drink a lot of caffeine though

Still, where does this leave Massa? He is the specialist of getting pole and then going on to win the race. And despite what he managed to do last year I still don't consider him championship material :confused: