The 2010 championship was a lot closer than last season though. Not to mention Kobayashi's banzai passing without DRS.
That was down to a certain Mr Newey and Mr Vettel. This season so far has been as close as 2010.
Bahrain Grand Prix 2012, Sakhir - Race 4/20
- Thread starter Duke
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That was down to a certain Mr Newey and Mr Vettel. This season so far has been as close as 2010.
Well, McLaren might actually win a WCC this century, if they don't keep screwing up in the race
Soldato
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Yes, I remember all those occasions when a Marussia or HRT got into Q3 on the back of the tyres, such as
Best solution for F1 tyre usage right now in my opinion is to abolish the "use both compounds" rule but allow only one stint on option tyres. You'll still get people trying to conserve tyres, but all qualifying can be done on options. The top 10 will race on their slightly used options at the start, while everyone who didn't get to Q3 can pick when they take their stint and use a completely fresh set. Drivers could even take the risk of not using options at all, if the primes last long enough to potentially save a pit stop.
Hmm. Might work. But I still don't think there would be enough of a difference. What your then saying is that a driver would have to be able to make up enough time in his short option tyre stint to offset a extra pit stop. Thats asking them to make up 2 seconds a lap, which isn't the case.
If the teams had enough tyres and free rein then they could run an entirely soft or entirely hard race, and that would definitely allow an extra stop. Imagine a 60 lap race with a 30 second pit stop time. You could do 2 stints on the hard, or 3 stints on the soft, and then the softs would only have to be 0.5 seconds faster than the hard per lap to make up the 30 seconds lost through a stop, which is easily doable and pretty much the difference we see now. That way cars that work well on softs can use them all race, and cars that work on hards can use them. Nobody is forced to use a tyre they stugle on.
If there is more than 1 compound then the difference in the use of those compounds must be enough to offset a pitstop. 1 stint is not long enough to do that, it needs to be the whole race.
If the teams had enough tyres and free rein then they could run an entirely soft or entirely hard race, and that would definitely allow an extra stop. Imagine a 60 lap race with a 30 second pit stop time. You could do 2 stints on the hard, or 3 stints on the soft, and then the softs would only have to be 0.5 seconds faster than the hard per lap to make up the 30 seconds lost through a stop, which is easily doable and pretty much the difference we see now. That way cars that work well on softs can use them all race, and cars that work on hards can use them. Nobody is forced to use a tyre they stugle on.
If there is more than 1 compound then the difference in the use of those compounds must be enough to offset a pitstop. 1 stint is not long enough to do that, it needs to be the whole race.
Bring in a quali tyre then everyone starts the race on new.
Design the tyres to work best when higher temp so drivers push and make them then last 20~ laps at that speed.
If they go slow to save them the temps drop and they don't work as well.
Design the tyres to work best when higher temp so drivers push and make them then last 20~ laps at that speed.
If they go slow to save them the temps drop and they don't work as well.
For the people discussing* the 2012 tyres read this
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/04/27/f1-fix-flawed-rules-pirelli-tyres/
* (complaining)
http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2012/04/27/f1-fix-flawed-rules-pirelli-tyres/
* (complaining
)If you ignore the first bit which is a rather uncalled for blind rant at Schumacher, I 100% agree with what that article suggests.
Drop the 'start on your qualifying tyres' rule and the 'use both compounds in the race' rule and keep the tyres as they are.
The rules alone won't do it, although I agree those tyre rules do need to be scrapped, but we still need more durable tyres so the most capable drivers can show their true pace.
Tyre management is not really a skill at all in the sense that anyone who can drive a car can do it, you just drive more slowly, brake earlier, accelerate more slowly, don't rag the car around corners, basically driving slower... yes racing drivers do occasionally have to conserve their tyres by backing off the pace but they shouldn't be doing from the 1st lap right to the very end like with F1 currently, it negates what differentiates the best drivers from the rest... speed.
Like another article said, if drivers are going to be driving at 80% of what the car can do they might as well just get the GP2 drivers in they will be just as good at 'tyre conservation'. Rookies who dominated other series used to come into F1 and look like utter mugs, spinning off, crashing, failing to qualify... now they just pay for a seat for some guy down the pub and he comes in looking like a pro.
Tyre management is not really a skill at all in the sense that anyone who can drive a car can do it, you just drive more slowly, brake earlier, accelerate more slowly, don't rag the car around corners, basically driving slower... yes racing drivers do occasionally have to conserve their tyres by backing off the pace but they shouldn't be doing from the 1st lap right to the very end like with F1 currently, it negates what differentiates the best drivers from the rest... speed.
Like another article said, if drivers are going to be driving at 80% of what the car can do they might as well just get the GP2 drivers in they will be just as good at 'tyre conservation'. Rookies who dominated other series used to come into F1 and look like utter mugs, spinning off, crashing, failing to qualify... now they just pay for a seat for some guy down the pub and he comes in looking like a pro.
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But this simply wont happen. If you give the drivers more durable tyres they wont push them harder, they will just conserve them in just the same way and stop to change them less.
You need to allow a complete race strategy that allows for a differing number of stops. Much like we had with refuelling where some would go for a 3 stop and others for a 2. We need significantly different compounds with the ability to run them for a whole race.
Of course its a skill if you manage to win a race while doing it (while all around you are doing their best to catch up with you no matter what.
Ask Hamilton or a few others whether "tyre management " is a skill or not, I suspect very much that he would definitely say "Yes"
Why is this any different to PDR getting 6th in the last race from only stopping twice compared to most others stopping an extra time?
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But its far from the norm, and definitely not the case for any of the top 10 who actually go out and set a time in Q3.
Removing the ties between qualifying and the race, and allowing free choice of tyres could produce a 50/50 strategy split spread throughout the whole grid. The current rules pretty much lock the top 10 into the same strategy, or at least similar ones.
And going back to Di Resta, he struggled to make that strategy work. Had he not had to run the softs at all the one shorter stint he did would have been longer, making the 2 stop strategy far more possible.
Imagine if teams could do a 1 stop Prime/Prime, a 3 stop Option/Option/Option/Option, or a 2 stop combination of the two, with the difference in the tyres being ~1s a lap. You could have any number of different strategies going on, with the ability to react to whats going on around you too. Remember how much fun watching Kobayashi on softs while everyone else was on hards at the end of one of the races in 2010 was? Imagine if half the field were on that strategy every race!
Imagine if Mercedes could have given Schumacher 4 sets of softs and lit a fire under his butt and told him to drive like a lunatic for 57 laps last weekend!
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Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
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- 46,279
Certainly wouldn't complain about more races 
The car wouldnt have lasted going 100% for every lap - they arent designed too anymore (any team's car, not just Merc). Even IF the car was physically able to carry enough fuel to go at 100% (which I personally doubt)
I think there are too many human errors still possible in pitstops in general (and manufacturing faults etc) for teams to be keen on stopping a lot more times than they REALLY have to, without even considering the fact that with the closeness of the cars this season from all teams - making up one 20 second pit stop is very difficult, two would be nigh on impossible (even if the tyres at their best was 1 second better)
Caporegime
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Are you sure about that? the general consensus(one I absolutely don't agree with btw) is that Hamilton didn't "save" his tyres and never has, and that Button is the "master" of it. Yet Hamilton still beat him most of the time, this year he's actually come out and said he's going slower to finish more races or, save his tyres, and boom 3 3rd places in a row and beating Button in most races quite easily, and but for his **** pit crew would be leading the championship now and beating Button quite easily.
Kinda funny that Hamilton in the space one basically 2 races and no previous obvious "saving tyres" nature, has surpassed the "master" at it.
My rather simple take is this, Button is a slower less aggressive driver, this just so happens to suit saving tyres, it is not his style, he's just not very fast and in being not as fast as Hamilton, wears his tyres less.
Look at Vettle, or Webber, or Hamilton in the past 3 years and you have a bunch of fastest laps, Vettle would go smoothly throughout a race and put in a unbelievable lap near the end, Webber would try the same, Hamilton would often be the fastest car at multiple points throughout a race.
With all three drivers(and a bunch of others also) you can see a clear "race pace" and the obvious different single lap pace where they can blow everyone else away. Button doesn't have the distinction for me, he has one pace, slow
He saves tyres because he's slow, he doesn't have that ability to put in an unbelievable lap. Hamilton is going slower in the race this year, but can still do the lap times in quali, Vettle, Rossberg, Webber can all do this, Button can't.There isn't a man on the grid who can't just go slower and extend tyre wear, there are only a handful of guys who can put in a god damned astonishing lap, Button isn't one of them.
It's almost as if it's completely stupid to try and draw such massively sweeping conclusions off the back of just 2 races!!
ignoring what dm has said (no change there)
i think button pitted earlier than hamilton every time at bahrain and in the couple of races previous.
certainly more than its hamilton in before button.
button saves his tires because of his style of smoothness.
hamilton is know for racing more raged, but it doesnt mean he doesnt no how to make the tires last longer if needed.
every driver can do it, not just the amazing button tire saver.
from what ive seen, its who ever is out in front who can do it easiest because they have no chasing to do and can do a perfect strategy. vettel does it as we have seen, rosberg did it last race and button and hamilton have done it.
i think button pitted earlier than hamilton every time at bahrain and in the couple of races previous.
certainly more than its hamilton in before button.
button saves his tires because of his style of smoothness.
hamilton is know for racing more raged, but it doesnt mean he doesnt no how to make the tires last longer if needed.
every driver can do it, not just the amazing button tire saver.
from what ive seen, its who ever is out in front who can do it easiest because they have no chasing to do and can do a perfect strategy. vettel does it as we have seen, rosberg did it last race and button and hamilton have done it.
Are you sure about that? the general consensus(one I absolutely don't agree with btw) is that Hamilton didn't "save" his tyres and never has, and that Button is the "master" of it. Yet Hamilton still beat him most of the time, this year he's actually come out and said he's going slower to finish more races or, save his tyres, and boom 3 3rd places in a row and beating Button in most races quite easily, and but for his **** pit crew would be leading the championship now and beating Button quite easily.
Kinda funny that Hamilton in the space one basically 2 races and no previous obvious "saving tyres" nature, has surpassed the "master" at it.
My rather simple take is this, Button is a slower less aggressive driver, this just so happens to suit saving tyres, it is not his style, he's just not very fast and in being not as fast as Hamilton, wears his tyres less.
Look at Vettle, or Webber, or Hamilton in the past 3 years and you have a bunch of fastest laps, Vettle would go smoothly throughout a race and put in a unbelievable lap near the end, Webber would try the same, Hamilton would often be the fastest car at multiple points throughout a race.
With all three drivers(and a bunch of others also) you can see a clear "race pace" and the obvious different single lap pace where they can blow everyone else away. Button doesn't have the distinction for me, he has one pace, slow
There isn't a man on the grid who can't just go slower and extend tyre wear, there are only a handful of guys who can put in a god damned astonishing lap, Button isn't one of them.
Lol.
Or should I say, "Lol".