Bahrain Grand Prix 2012, Sakhir - Race 4/20
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But he wouldn't. If they had tyres that lasted longer they would have just done 1 stop and then had to make sure the tyres lasted over the longer stint. Making tyres last longer isn't going to suddenly make everyone drive harder, they will just stop less and continue to manage tyres over the stint. As long as the time lost through managing tyres is less than that needed for an extra stop then tyre management will always be the way teams go.
The only way to get drivers to push hard every stint is to make them stop for something other than tyres.
Remember, we have had quite a few combinations over the last few years to look back on, and also other formula's to look at how they work.
We had refueling and tyres that lasted quite a while. The pit stops were determined by the fuel level and not the tyre conditions, so drivers would push throughout the stint without fear of the tyres falling away. The problem was all overtaking was then done through the pitstops and on strategy. People had no desire to fight on track. As soon as they caught someone they pitted, got some fresh tyres, did a few fast laps and when the guy infront pitted they leapfrogged them. All the fans moaned.
So the FIA got rid of tyre stops. Tyres would easily last the whole race. The only reason to pit was now for fuel. Everyone worked out the ideal strategy for the race and pitted the same number of times. Nobody made any wild lunges as damaging your tyres meant you were screwed for the whole rest of the race. Everyone just followed each other round tip toeing about the tyres, and trying to leapfrog people in the pits. All the fans moaned
So it went back to tyre changes and fuel stops. But the tyres we inherited would still easily do a whole race. So the FIA artificially mandated stops by imposing the 2 compound rule. However, with no fear of the tyres falling away everyone again worked out the best strategy and all stopped at the same time. Drivers spent a massive stint on the hards still tip toeing around on their tyres not wanting to damage them as the penalty for stopping for an extra set was far greater than any advantage from pushing hard. All the fans moaned.
So the FIA got rid of refueling. All the strategy was now based on tyres. The tyres still lasted a whole race so pitting was nothing more than an inconvineice as shown a few times by people pitting either right at the start or right at the end of the race. Making a set of tyres last the whole race still needed people to not munch them, so again people still tip toed around. All the fans moaned.
Canada 2010 happened. The tyres got munched, teams made multiple pitstops, the racing was brilliant. All the fans said "more of that please!".
The FIA got the new supplier to make 'Canada spec' tyres. They would fall apart, forcing more than a single stop during a race. They would offer sixeable differences between new and old tyres, and differences in compounds would also offer a mis of performance. But drivers still had to look after tyres as the time taken for an extra stop was not made up by pushing hard. After a period of anticipation and some acceptance.... all the fans are now moaning.
What else is there left? Short of imposing GP2 style 'pit windows' that break the race into segments that are shorter than the life of a tyre when pushed hard, what can the FIA do?
I just get the feeling people will never be happy because they are wanting a style of Formula 1 that just isn't possible. You have to balance up what you have with what it solves.
Exactly. Based on the response to situations like Canada in 2010.
We can go back to Bridgestone style tyres if you want, but then we would see guys managing tyres for 40 lap stints rather than 20 lap ones. The idea that Bridgestone style tyres would suddenly mean everyone still does 3 or 4 stops, but pushes hard every stint is is simply foolish.
Exactly. People are making too much fuss about the tyres.
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Soldato
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People dont want predictable results, yet at the same time no one likes chaos.
Its human nature.
The problem is, there is only one way to win a race - the shortest race time, not the all and out fastest car/driver.
Once all the big teams figure the correct stratergy to yield the shortest time we end up in the current situation.
What we need is a way that the fastest cars are not punished for being fast. Yet at the same time a level enough playing field to give enough variation in race results.
Good luck to who has to come up with that solution
Its human nature.
The problem is, there is only one way to win a race - the shortest race time, not the all and out fastest car/driver.
Once all the big teams figure the correct stratergy to yield the shortest time we end up in the current situation.
What we need is a way that the fastest cars are not punished for being fast. Yet at the same time a level enough playing field to give enough variation in race results.
Good luck to who has to come up with that solution
you act like theres only 2 extremes they can goto with tyres most people would be happy with some where inbetween.
the main issue with the tyres isnt they dont last long its the fact that if a driver pushs for one whole lap the tyres are already overheating before they cross the finish line.
a second flying lap shouldnt be 1 second slower than the first
Would this really make that much difference?
Unless there was a weather / temp change (where in some cases tyres change anyway) - the faster cars on the track that weekend will still be those qualifying on first few rows, whether they have new tyres or not wont make a significant amount of difference imo
admittedly some cars work perfectly on low fuel, and badly on race amounts of fuel and vice versa , but its a quirk more than a rule imo (although happily corrected if you think differently)
What it would do is mix the strategies at the front of the grid. At the moment the top 10 (usually) all start on the softs with the aim to do a first stint of roughly the same length. Having the top 10 start on differing strategies, as the second half of the grid do, could mix things up without giving anyone an advantage or disadvantage.
hmm its a nice theory , but I dont believe that would be the case
All teams would chose the fastest tyre available to start the race , they would be forced to otherwsie they are more likely to be stuck behind more cars in the melee of the first lap or so of most races (and therefore lose more time than according to their predictions)
With those starting 11 downwards, then either way works I agree and its worth the gamble - starting from 5th on the grid is completely different kettle of fish (especially given that on any given race cars in the lower reaches of the top ten will feel they are out of place to start with)
Thats how I suspect it would end up anyway
#
edit (from my viewpoint there is too much "randomness" to the first lap or so after 5th or so on the grid to actually predict where any given car can end up, not suggesting there is anything wrong with this at all - just stating this observation.)
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how about you start on the oposite tyres you qualify on
that would be pretty cool and give teams a real stratergy decision
I think this is as big a problem as anything - their predictions and analysis are probably getting so advanced that essentially everyone homes in on a universal best solution of laptimes, pit windows etc. and there is much less guesswork and human problem solving than there was probably even only 10 years ago.
When you had people looking at the data thinking 'we could probably push it with a 2 stop' but the guy down the pit lane was thinking 'lets hammer it with a 3 stop' you had variety.
If they're all sat there with complex computer modelling that essentially says 'Pit this lap, do this speed, fuel this much, race completion = optimum' then I don't think it's surprising.
Totally agree, it doesn't matter if the tyres could take punishment. They would never be flat out. That requires more fuel, more weigh to accelerate, less balance in corners. These days it is computer simulation of fasted possible combination.
The biggest single improvement is get rid of two tyre compound rule. Ifyou have to race a third of the race on a certain compound, then that destroys 99% of stratageys.
The biggest single improvement is get rid of two tyre compound rule. Ifyou have to race a third of the race on a certain compound, then that destroys 99% of stratageys.
That's why they need refueling, 2 or 3 stop strategies were nearly always faster than 1 stopping and it's equally ridiculous that drivers today have to conserve fuel as well as tyres.
Drivers rarely used to pit for tyres they would pit for fuel, slapping a new set of tyres on was simply a bonus. Removing refueling makes pitting unnecessary which is why the stupid 2 compound rule and comedy Pirelli tyres were introduced.
The FIA are doing everything they can via regulations etc to slow F1 down and make it more closer and random, it's not true racing anymore. It's about time the drivers fought back.
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No it's not because the real racing drivers cannot push without destroying the tyres, it's like giving runners training shoes that will fall to pieces if they exceed 15mph and having them run on broken glass, Usain Bolt has to slow himself down to 15mph just like all the other slower runners, the only skillset needed is to slow down and not run at your natural pace and hope for the best, it's a lottery because everyone is running at the same artificially slow speed.
F1 has always been about raw pace until recent years where it has steadily been turned into a show via rules and regulations.
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Exactly. With refuelling tyres were never an issue. When you put the strategy based solely on tyres a managed race is always going to be quicker overall than a flat out race with an extra stop or 2. Pit stops are massive risks (see Hamilton this race), and at the very best are going to cost at least 20 seconds. Its just impossible to make that up through pushing harder. As long as we have pit stops defined by tyres, tyre management will be a key part of the strategy.
Just so were clear, I don't have the answer. I actually don't think there is one. You are always going to have a compromise.
This is something people seem to be forgetting. F1 is the ultimate culmination of team, driver, car, strategy, and luck.
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