Bahrain Grand Prix 2013, Sakhir - Race 4/19

Cavallino said:
My sentiments. I believe the boundaries we're skirted for sure, but not crossed.
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Agreed, even if it did slow them both down. In a way Button would have been better off letting him past and keeping with him.

My point earlier was about it being clean racing, which it wasn't :p
 
Not sure it slowed down either with any lasting effect. Button's issue was a utterly utterly stupid pitstop, Rosberg aswell, both idiots, had nothing to do with Perez. Didn't slow Perez down enough to not let him get past Webber, and Ham/Perez had zero shot at catching Grosjean, so while the fighting with Perez MAY have cost him a chance to overtake Webber, nothing else, being way down was Button's fault, his tyres weren't remotely gone or destroyed once Perez got past him, he wanted the undercut, nothing else, and utterly misjudged(or Mclaren, I'm willing to give Button benefit of the doubt as Mclaren's strategists are beyond awful, he did on the radio ask to come in first lap of the window, but if a team tell you 22 laps to go is the window, the driver can and SHOULD say, 22laps, you been smoking crack lately mate).

AS for the bump, again haven't seen the wheel banging, the mid corner tap from behind, watch it, they showed it again after the race, its VERY clear that Button purposefully held off to hopefully force Perez to break and force him to back off a bit, you can literally see this, and you could see Webber go very slow and not put the foot down at the same place later in the race.

It was button's fault for doing it with someone that close behind who has zero chance to slow down in time. A huge amount of racing is having a level of expectation about what everyone else is doing, being a **** mid corner hoping to force evasive reactions behind you which mess them up always have a risk of backfiring and causing contact.

Like I said, I'm happy with what Button did, thats part of racing, you can cause a little contact, boo hoo, he took that risk though and he pushed someone off the road, he refused to let the faster guy through(good for him), the wheel bang IF Perez moved into Button is the only thing Perez did wrong, except when he forced Alonso was it off track. The two incidents that should have been investigated were the two times they forced guys off the track when they had people clearly alongside them. The contact Button caused was part and parcel of racing, his choice to slow down, the only thing I dislike is Button's whinging after the race, he was by far the worse of the two(between those two racing, Perez/Button equally in the wrong for pushing guys off the road).

Perez was impressive, Ted did very well in the pitlane walk after to point out that el Mr richest Mexican and his rich son were at the race this weekend, and there is every chance they'll be the teams main sponsor in the future so Perez had something to prove today so had a take no **** attitude. However it was still a controlled take no **** attitude, he didn't do a Maldonado/Grosjean by any stretch of the imagination.

I think for the first 3 races he's kinda had that "this car is so expensive, the team have spent so much, better not scratch it first time out" mentality, while today he just put his foot down and wanted to prove what he could do. He outdrove Button today, signs off life after 3 very poor races. Have to see how the next few races go, Perez stays out of goes back into his shell.
 
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Absolutely brilliant race today!

I'l let the internet boys whine, but give a ****, what a fantastic race to watch.

Just a pity the Merc was soo crap whilst laden with fuel.


xx
 
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What did button say on the team radio (during the Perez fight)?

I didn't hear it properly live, but can't find a transcript. I'm not talking about the request to come in for his final stint.

Good race. Shame the tyres shafted Massa and Hamilton's races. Pretty harsh to punish merc for that. May as well give Massa a retrospective drive through :rolleyes:

Was Webber's KERS fubar'd at the end too? He got mugged at the end.
 
Cavallino said:
I believe the boundaries we're skirted for sure, but not crossed.
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Skirted is an understatement. If they raced like that at any circuit built before 2000, you probably would have had several drivers in hospital as they hit the grass and crashed all over the place. It is just because ALL of the run-offs are concrete, that they could do that. There were points where drivers were off the track and going just as fast as the cars on the track, purely because it was a short cut across the corner. Off the track should be a disadvantage, not a minor annoyance.

Seeing as the rules say you have to be on track between the white lines, why has there been no penalties for exceeding track limits, or forcing cars off-track?
 
El_Watcher said:
Skirted is an understatement. If they raced like that at any circuit built before 2000, you probably would have had several drivers in hospital as they hit the grass and crashed all over the place. It is just because ALL of the run-offs are concrete, that they could do that. There were points where drivers were off the track and going just as fast as the cars on the track, purely because it was a short cut across the corner. Off the track should be a disadvantage, not a minor annoyance.

Seeing as the rules say you have to be on track between the white lines, why has there been no penalties for exceeding track limits, or forcing cars off-track?
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if there where wall then they wouldnt of done half the stuff they did.

its because of the track design that they could do what they did.




i don think the racing was that bad, there was contact but more like rubbin'.

it was good entertaining stuff, button was just not happy that his team mate was faster than him and putting him under pressure.

if button was smart he would have let him go and look after his tires. isnt that his style? a gp isnt won in 2 laps etc etc?



i bet hamilton is having a laugh at this story, he knows what the mclaren pr machine is like. perez learning what its like to be a mclaren driver :)
 
El_Watcher said:
Skirted is an understatement. If they raced like that at any circuit built before 2000, you probably would have had several drivers in hospital as they hit the grass and crashed all over the place. It is just because ALL of the run-offs are concrete, that they could do that. There were points where drivers were off the track and going just as fast as the cars on the track, purely because it was a short cut across the corner. Off the track should be a disadvantage, not a minor annoyance.

Seeing as the rules say you have to be on track between the white lines, why has there been no penalties for exceeding track limits, or forcing cars off-track?
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No one gained an advantage by doing so. Like the above post said, they only did it because they could. Obviously it doesn't work if there is grass there.
 
utajoker said:
i wouldnt call it a fall out. just button moaning because perez was faster.
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Yeah um the thing is Perez had said before the race that he sacrificed qualifying (hence him not getting into Q3) for race set-up ... ie. setting the rear tyre balance correctly for a rear limited track.

It just goes to further compound the belief that Qualifying isn't very important anymore.

No one has proved this better in recent times than Nico Rosberg qualifying on pole for this race and going backwards NINE times.

To say Perez is now better in wheel to wheel combat is stupid, give the guys exactly the same set-up, condition of tyres and put them together and would anyone bet against Jenson being the victor? I wouldn't put my house on it...

Formula 1 is all about the tyres at the moment, it's a sad truth that it isn't about driver vs driver on pure skill alone yet many people take away all of the contributing factors into what's making one driver's car quicker than another driver's at any given time and call it "driver x was faster than driver y today"

Whilst that may be the case some of the time, I don't think it was in this case, and this notion is backed up by the fact that Jenson had to make 4 stops on Sunday; his car wasn't set up for the race as well as Sergio's and for whatever reason that caused him to use more tyres.
 
.@alo_oficial: "Is good to battle w someone u respect & battle is fair. Some of rookies who arrive in F1 with GP2 mentality it’s very risky”

RE: Perez
 
Anyone think this comment on the latest BBC article about Mercedes is a bit extreme?:

"Although the Mercedes is competitive in qualifying, Red Bull, Lotus and Ferrari are comfortably the fastest cars in the race, with Mercedes at the head of the next group which includes Force India and McLaren. "

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22253676

In Malaysia they were comfortably faster than the Lotus's and you could argue faster than the Ferrari's as well.

In China, Hamilton finished 2 seconds behind Raikonnen....ahead of vettel

Yes, in Australia and Bahrain that comment is valid but over the first 4 races, i think it is false to say lotus red bull and ferrari are all comfortably faster than the Mercedes.

I would say they are perhaps the slowest of the top four in the race. Not the fastest of the group after that (with Mclaren and Force India)
 
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I think thats pretty much where they will spend the rest of the season, with McLaren crawling out of that group and into the top 4.
 
You break the rules by going off the track to gain an advantage. Going off and not gaining an advantage wouldn't fall foul off the the rules.

The forcing a driver off the track one is more complicated. The FIA seem to have taken the aproach that if you are just taking the racing line then its fine to force someone off the track. But then that brings into question the Perez/Kimi move from China as all Perez was doing was following the racing line.

Are people saying they would have liked to see a bunch of penalties handed out at Bahrain?
 
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