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Bahrain Grand Prix 2014, Sakhir - Race 3/19
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Watching Rosbergs pole lap, he regularly changes it to various values between 55 and 62. There's quite a few buttons pressed in combination to get there, and he flies through them quite rapidly.
Brake bias does make sense as the drivers will flex that around regularly, but its no longer a lever.
Soldato
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Brake-bias and differential (and to a lesser degree in the dry, engine maps) all change the handling characteristics and are fairly common changes throughout a lap, especially in qualifying.
Yep. Although putting it in giant letters on the giant screen directly infront of the roll bar mounted TV camera with a live stream might mean they can't hide it under coded messages any more 
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"Ok Nico, Torque front, magic brake rear, yellow G6 and T12 42, confirm"
"Ok, confirm"... *BRAKE BIAS 59. DIFF 20* appears on the dash in massive letters.
."Ok Nico, Torque front, magic brake rear, yellow G6 and T12 42, confirm"
"Ok, confirm"... *BRAKE BIAS 59. DIFF 20* appears on the dash in massive letters.
The bias is, but the actual braking is a mixture. The front brakes are 100% mechanical, with the hydraulic link from the pedal connected to the brakes. The rear is fed through a system that can 'dampen' the amount of pedal force that gets to the rear brakes, allowing for the braking of the MGUK to fill the void. Hence why its dash controlled through electronics rather than a lever like it used to be.
The braking isn't by wire, the pads are still moved by fluid that is fed by the drivers foot, its just the force on the rears can be altered by the cars electronics on the fly. Adjusting the brake balance would alter how much the rears are played with.
Its clearly very complicated as quite a few teams still haven't got it right.
Indeed. I can understand why Bernie etc are saying that some people might be turned off by the complexity of it. I'm really into it, but I refrain from talking in to much detail about it to casual fans as they just look at me like I'm talking Greek
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Caporegime
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It's spelt Geek 
Either way, I'm under the impression there is no hydraulic link to the rear brake pedal at all, there is a hydraulic system but it's controlled by whatever the heck controls that part of the system. It's fully brake by wire but has a hydraulic not an electrical system to control the mechanical braking on the other side of the controller for the brakes. I imagine that when the kers fails the back up is to switch to software that pretty much just translates the electronic pressure on the brake pedal into a specific amount of hydraulic pressure.
Either way, I'm under the impression there is no hydraulic link to the rear brake pedal at all, there is a hydraulic system but it's controlled by whatever the heck controls that part of the system. It's fully brake by wire but has a hydraulic not an electrical system to control the mechanical braking on the other side of the controller for the brakes. I imagine that when the kers fails the back up is to switch to software that pretty much just translates the electronic pressure on the brake pedal into a specific amount of hydraulic pressure.
I guessing a little here, but the rear brakes will probably be similar to how hybrid road cars manage their brake systems. I would assume in a ERS failure, the pedal will default to mechanical braking only. There will still be a full mechanical connection to the rear brakes, but the system will control how much of the effort is contributed by the electric machine and how much from the discs.
It's very difficult doing good regen braking on hybrid road cars, I can't imagine how complicated it is to do on these F1 cars, I can see why some of the teams are struggling!
It's very difficult doing good regen braking on hybrid road cars, I can't imagine how complicated it is to do on these F1 cars, I can see why some of the teams are struggling!
Depending on where you look the details seem to vary between the hydraulic connection being 'interfered with' by electronics, or an electronic signal being interpreted and then generating the hydraulic connection, and the only article I've found is hidden behind the Autosport pay wall. So it may well be how drunkenmaster described it.
On the other hand, when you see the pictures of cars without their nosecones are, you can still see two brake fluid reservoirs feeding the master cylinders at the bulkhead, which would imply some sort of hydraulic connection between the pedal and the rears, but I've not done an awful lot of looking in to it, there's probably an actuator somewhere at the rear that acts as a pressure relief when the ERS can do it instead.
Soldato
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can anyone answer this? i turned over once i knew the results to give my parents a chance to watch the telly so i have no idea what everyone is on about
Caporegime
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Good to see two evenly matched drivers in the Mercedes going head to head although it proves they both need the best car to win races. Also good to see the Williams back in the top 10 and RB struggling, be interesting to see if Vettel has lost any of the ability or motivation he showed while driving for Torro Rosso having dominated the sport from the front for so long.
Sky showed a clip of an interview they have with him in the race show build up tomorrow. He was talking about the engines and said "the noise isn't that bad, but it would be good if we could get it up a bit more. I wish I could get it up a bit more too, but anyway." I very nearly wet myself!
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Soldato
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Oh that
I saw it when he said it during the practice sessions. i thought he had done something else funny during qualifying
Caporegime
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It still has hydraulics to the brake, just the pressure isn't linked to the pedal any more and realistically due to packaging it's just where the hydraulics go. As brake efficiency is linked to the fluid temp(partly at least) sticking the reservoir in near the engine likely makes a very bad choice. So I really wouldn't expect them to move it, just the hydraulic fluid for one pedal is really controlled by something else. The controller needs back up modes for when ers(which ever one it's called
) is not working, just use same level of mechanical brakes as when we've harvested the allowed amount per lap.It isn't ever quite clear though, by definition brake by wire is supposed to mean braking by wire, not hydraulic at least from the driver input end. But when teams speak about it it's fairly ambiguous. I don't actually know if brake by wire is a specific rule or just a general result of needing non human control(ie faster and more accurate) of the harvesting of power. Considering the trouble involved having a back up direct mechanical link feels sensible but I get the impression it is completely removed now and is entirely computer controlled.
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