Bahrain Grand Prix 2014, Sakhir - Race 3/19

He said in particular what I've been saying, is that because there are actually regulations the tv guys are paying more attention to it. But they were fuel saving last year, and we heard about it in race. But put up a fuel usage graphic and suddenly the entire year is about fuel saving.

No, same as any other year they are just talking about it more. If they'd been talking about it more for the past 5 years no one would bat an eyelid to the information about it this year.

There was no effective fuel limit last year, yet no one went over a certain sensible amount, and most under fuelled as much as possible. I think effectively there is no different at all in fuel except peoples awareness of it.
 
smr said:
Yep, if it will be such an advantage for Merc all season at least there's still the inter-team battle between Rosberg and Hamilton, who are good friends of course... so that will be fascinating to watch. Then there's always the fight for 2nd, 3rd etc.
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Hamilton has denied they are "good friends". Respect each other and all that, but not really friends (something about not counting him amongst the good friends he has on one hand)

drunkenmaster said:
There was no effective fuel limit last year, yet no one went over a certain sensible amount, and most under fuelled as much as possible. I think effectively there is no different at all in fuel except peoples awareness of it.
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They have been under-fuelling for years - but by more than ~40% (the limit was 160kg before this year) , I doubt any team were under fueling that much.

Also with the complete change in engine - direct comparison (of fuel usage) is irrelevant.
 
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drunkenmaster said:
Can still hope for one of them to screw up quali ;)

I'd much prefer one race this year where they do points for quali and the race so effectively double points but run a reverse grid order to see how it works. Could be epic. Much better idea than just double points for a normal race end of the year.
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Given the artificial racing complaints, how popular would screwing with a single race that much and reversing the grid be? Could be interesting to watch though :p.

Making qualifying carry the same reward as the race might make people just focus on 1 lap, non racing pace, and then throw the race away. Or half the grid deliberately drive slowly to get pole :).

Maybe a middle ground. Remove parc ferme, but keep the limits on engine limits etc, scrap the qualifying to the race tyre link, and offer some points for Qualifying results. Maybe a point for getting to Q2, a point for getting to Q3, and then 3 for pole, 2 for 2nd and 1 for 3rd. Maximum of 5 points, so not massive, but makes it a competition.
 
drunkenmaster said:
He said in particular what I've been saying, is that because there are actually regulations the tv guys are paying more attention to it. But they were fuel saving last year, and we heard about it in race. But put up a fuel usage graphic and suddenly the entire year is about fuel saving.

No, same as any other year they are just talking about it more. If they'd been talking about it more for the past 5 years no one would bat an eyelid to the information about it this year.

There was no effective fuel limit last year, yet no one went over a certain sensible amount, and most under fuelled as much as possible. I think effectively there is no different at all in fuel except peoples awareness of it.
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Exactly. How much talk has there been about tyres this year? None, because it's not what people are talking about. It doesn't mean tyre strategy suddenly doesn't exist.
 
FrankJH said:
Hamilton has denied they are "good friends". Respect each other and all that, but not really friends (something about not counting him amongst the good friends he has on one hand)
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Like Alonso says "I'm not here to make friends" and as for the Merc battle well that already start in the last race in quali.
 
Thing is you could blow the race, and ultimately the slowest cars aren't going to win full stop no matter how much blocking happens. Fact is the best teams will believe they can get the full 50 points, it's that attitude that makes qualifying on pole worthwhile.

It would totally screw with racing but damn would it be fun to watch. When I remember racing I can't help but remember this image of I'm fairly sure Mansell the back of three cars, one guy pulls out to overtake and Mansell comes out even wider and gets them both, France in the 80's I think. We'd have so many double/triple overtakes, so much blocking and position changing. Even if the Mercs/RBR's were top 4 after 3 laps it would be entertaining. But as I said, it sounds much more fun and interesting than just doubling the points in a normal race.
 
deuse said:
Like Alonso says "I'm not here to make friends" and as for the Merc battle well that already start in the last race in quali.
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Quali doesnt give points though - and LH is bound to make a couple of big errors in races this season, he always seems to
 
Other than the possible exception of Button, how many world champions have been thourouhly nice chaps who are friends with everyone?

Being a bit of a **** would appear to be a bit of a competitive advantage :p
 
drunkenmaster said:
Thing is you could blow the race, and ultimately the slowest cars aren't going to win full stop no matter how much blocking happens. Fact is the best teams will believe they can get the full 50 points, it's that attitude that makes qualifying on pole worthwhile.

It would totally screw with racing but damn would it be fun to watch. When I remember racing I can't help but remember this image of I'm fairly sure Mansell the back of three cars, one guy pulls out to overtake and Mansell comes out even wider and gets them both, France in the 80's I think. We'd have so many double/triple overtakes, so much blocking and position changing. Even if the Mercs/RBR's were top 4 after 3 laps it would be entertaining. But as I said, it sounds much more fun and interesting than just doubling the points in a normal race.
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I don't think there is a single person in the world that doesn't think the double points is a completely retarded idea :p.

I like the idea of making qualifying reward in other ways above just track position, but they would need to cut the ties with the race first for it to work.
 
Lol, they just smashed their fast laps, which where already unbeatable by the other teams.

Edit - or Pérez can get close.
 
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FrankJH said:
He will still make errors, bound to
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Which part of "nothing to do with" don't you understand dude?

Nico's engineer ask him what tries does want for the last run and is the track ready for inters.

Nico said "yes" the track is ready and I want inters, Hamilton's engineer ask the same to Lewis
but Lewis never fell for it and so on and so on(Lewis was told about Nico and inters)
 
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deuse said:
Which part of "nothing to do with" don't you understand dude?

Nico's engineer ask him what tries does want for the last run and is the track ready for inters.

Nico said "yes" the track is ready and I want inters, Hamilton's engineer ask the same to Lewis but Lewis never fall for it and so and so
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and that has nothing to do with what I was talking about
 
Crippled Potato said:
I love these conceptual artificial racing ideas. if you're going to make it artificial at least make it interesting to watch rather than slapping on double points :D
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Blue shells, banana skins, chain chomps!

Anything is better than arbitrarily awarding double points for what will be the most boring race of the year.
 
FrankJH said:
Hamilton has denied they are "good friends". Respect each other and all that, but not really friends (something about not counting him amongst the good friends he has on one hand)



They have been under-fuelling for years - but by more than ~40% (the limit was 160kg before this year) , I doubt any team were under fueling that much.

Also with the complete change in engine - direct comparison (of fuel usage) is irrelevant.
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In terms of friends, people are so quick to make decisions. Same in football, you get the "player X will want to go to club Y because a guy he played with as a kid plays there" or like "Vert will go to Arsenal because he's friends with Vermaelen". It's all made up nonsense, Hamilton and Rosberg used to be in the same team, doesn't mean they are best friends. Likewise Hamilton/Alonso had major issues in the same team but seem pretty friendly and very complimentary of each other now. You can't determine who is friends based on if people worked together.

I think their friendship, or lack of one, is irrelevant.

With fuel, I don't think there actually was a fuel limit was there, just 160kg was about the most they ever wanted to use at the highest fuel using races. Either way, the engines were aiming for 30-35% more efficient so should use 35% less fuel to begin with which puts them in the same ballpark as last year.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/01/15/new-fuel-limit-2014-toughest-f1-rule/

this has some great info, only one track used above 148kg of fuel, averaging probably around the 140kg mark, being as low as 112kg which was as much of an outlier as 165kg. I think there will only be 1-2 races that might have some serious fuel saving, but then, they'd be slower and might just be a shorter race.

It's difficult to quantify really but I really don't think it's nearly as big a difference as people make out. 140kg average last year, 30-35% efficiency saving, roughly 95-100kg usage. You can see that in most races using less fuel but being faster every lap meant more to them in overall race pace and strategy, and that 140kg with 30-35% efficiency improvements puts them relatively on par with this seasons limit.

All it really means is at Barca they preferred to go balls out with full on fuel and this year they'll run Barca like any other track, with the lower fuel/more efficiency mode.
 
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