Ok fair enough. Didn't know it did that.
Poll: Bahrain Grand Prix 2019, Sakhir - Race 2/21
- Thread starter Shimmy
- Start date
Ok fair enough. Didn't know it did that.
Caporegime
Awesome that Hamilton won, so pleased for him as it seems that this season again he hasn’t got the fastest car. Ferrari’s seem to be much quicker like last year but somehow they always seem to screw things up.
Gutted for Leclerc though, definitely his race to win only for a mechanical failure.
And just lols from Vettel, picking up from where left off last season
.
Gutted for Leclerc though, definitely his race to win only for a mechanical failure.
And just lols from Vettel, picking up from where left off last season
.
Soldato
People thought that race was a 10? There were some good on track battles but it was no way a 10
Soldato
You've got to judge it in context. Compared to a lot of races last year it was definitely a 10. Compared to some in, say, 2008 it was a 23½...
Deleted member 651465
D
Deleted member 651465
But that's not how it works in F1 cars is it? The MGU-H sits between the Turbine and Compressor, when exhaust gases spin the turbine, they also spin the MGU-H via a shaft that connects the turbine and compressor. This produces electricity which is stored in the battery. The energy can then be used to power the MGU-K or be retained for subsequent use. Under acceleration, the electricity is used to help eliminate turbo lag by spinning the compressor in addition to the flow of exhaust gases over its blades. If the MGU-H fails (or some other part of the MGU-H) you aren't able to rely on the additional electrical boost which leads to the loss of BHP and in addition makes it less efficient as you are relying purely on the ICE. A wastegate failure would be pretty catastrophic and I don't think is in question. As I said I suspect fuel was an issue due to less efficiency from the loss of the MGU-H and probably in part due to turning up the engine to compensate.
MGU-H (where the ‘h’ stands for heat) is an energy recovery system connected to the turbocharger of the engine and converts heat energy from exhaust gases into electrical energy. The energy can then be used to power the MGU-K (and thus returned to the drivetrain) or be retained in the ES for subsequent use. Unlike the MGU-K which is limited to recovering 2MJ of energy per lap, the MGU-H is unlimited. The MGU-H also controls the speed of the turbo, speeding it up (to prevent turbo lag) or slowing it down in place of a more traditional waste gate.
https://www.formula1.com/en/champio...anding-f1-racing/Energy_Recovery_Systems.html
Yes I know that my point is if the MGU-H fails it will just as act as a bypass wastegate valve as the turbine won't spin to recover energy from the hot gasses. A wastegate valve failure would lead to a build up of hot gas and pressure and would blow the engine which is why I said the wastegate failure wasn't in question. This was all separated as part of the homologation rules to stop failure of parts making an engine redundant given the limited engines available.
Edit:
In fact that might be outdated (since it was from 2015) as the wastegate was split out as part of the exhaust changes in 2016.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/121332/will-new-exhausts-make-f1-louder
Last edited:
Caporegime
Yeah, this.
F1 without DRS < F1 with DRS < F1 doesn't need DRS
This race was better with DRS but it'd be better still if it didn't need it.
But an MGU-H is Not a traditional waste gate, it acts like one
So you will never get the build up of preossure so that kind of failure will never happen
However as it does directly effect the rotational speed of the turbo, it will effect the boost pressure that will in turn effect the fuel air ratio so fueling will be significantly decreased.
Even by upping the ICE power, I cannot see how overall fueling will be more than with a fully functioning MGU-H and fully functioning turbo.
Therefore to say that LeClerc was using more fuel after the failure than before I think is wrong
I just cannot see how the ecu will need to put more fuel in with less air going in it will always try to maintain the ideal stoichiometric air-fuel ratio (approx 14.7:1)
You have less air, that must mean using less fuel
Soldato
I know that the state of F1 means that a race with even a little bit of overtaking means that it’s entertaining as **** but I don’t think it was as good as some races in the past few years, Croft’s barely raised his voice.
You had Leclerc overtake Vettel and Hamilton overtake Vettel, that was the only exciting racing I saw. I did miss the first lap though
Well not sure I agree as F1 engines have both the MGU-H and a traditional wastegate. Since the engine is mapped for a particular boost range, excess energy would normally just be vented straight into the exhaust by the wastegate. The MGUH is essentially collecting the energy that the wastegate would normally discharge to the atmosphere. By installing both a wastegate and a MGUH there is redundant protection from overboost. As such there I don't think there is necessarily less boost pressure from a loss of the MGU-H.
Soldato
As for the rest of the field, Norris seems like another star of the future and I'm happy that McLaren are starting to make decent progress again. Sainz was unlucky to get Verstappen'd but should really have seen it coming. He could have been top 6 today.
Ricciardo is also starting to get a little shown up by Hulk now. I know Danny Ric outqualified him, but Hulk had the pace all weekend, and was on DR's tail within 3 or 4 laps. I'm not sure whose idea it was for DR to go for a one-stop, but it was a really dumb idea.
Gasly's star seems to be in the gutter already. I don't know WTF is going on with him, but I can only imagine Marko is sharpening his knives already. PG was behind both Torro Rossos for most of the race, and we even passed by Kvyat at one point IRRC. Kvyat was booted out of the RB for more impressive performances.
Ricciardo is also starting to get a little shown up by Hulk now. I know Danny Ric outqualified him, but Hulk had the pace all weekend, and was on DR's tail within 3 or 4 laps. I'm not sure whose idea it was for DR to go for a one-stop, but it was a really dumb idea.
Gasly's star seems to be in the gutter already. I don't know WTF is going on with him, but I can only imagine Marko is sharpening his knives already. PG was behind both Torro Rossos for most of the race, and we even passed by Kvyat at one point IRRC. Kvyat was booted out of the RB for more impressive performances.
It's the one thing I wish there was more of, back to back races. I love it when there are back to back races.
Soldato
Really? I don't usually mind him, but from the start, with the duelling between the Ferrari's and Mercs and the mid field squabbles, there was a good 5 minutes where he was droning on in his high pitched tone and it really started to grate.
Same. IIRC there's only 3 back to backs this season. They spread them out after having so many last year that the teams complained about the strain it put on the mechanics. *Edit* Just checked, there's 5 this year.
Caporegime
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 33,188
This is pretty much it, the ice and exhaust is designed to power the turbo beyond what it needs to feed enough air into the ice so they can consistently siphon off the extra rpms for the mgu-h. So lets say the ice produces exhaust to push the turbo to 110k rpm, but it only needs 100k maxed out for best combustion rate. MGU-H keeps it down to 100k rpm, with the mgu-h gone it now wants to go to 110k rpm and the actual wastegate will be used to drop it to 100k rpm for heat/reliability reasons and the extra rpm won't do anything for the ICE anyway.
It will lose a little efficiency during the exits from corners without the mgu-h to keep the compressor at 100k rpm when off throttle and also means a fair amount of turbo lag. but really the inefficiency comes from lack of harvesting. It's not like he gets to 260kph normally then can't get the final 40kph, he's down that much accelerating power over the entire straight, in fact it's worse at the start due to the turbo lag.
Caporegime
He's been promoted too fast against an extraordinary talent. Last season he had a few remarkable performances but wasn't that impressive overall. He's only there because Rici caught RBR on the hop.
Kvyat is the most hard done by driver I've ever seen. Never before has a driver who has performed so well been sacked.
Man of Honour
- Joined
- 21 Nov 2004
- Posts
- 45,019
Raikonen and Norris in 6th and 7th in the championship so far. Impressive.