Bakers refuse Gay wedding cake - update: Supreme Court rules in favour of Bakers

No, Christ is ashamed of 2 men wanting to marry!

He told you that, did he? By telepathy?

The only alleged accounts of anything Jesus allegedly said are in the new testament of the Christian bible. There isn't a single word in there attributed to him that says anything about anything to do with homosexuality. Not one word.

That alone is enough for many Christians. The teachings of Jesus are supposed to be the gold standard for Christians, the thing that most defines what Christianity is and what Christians should do. So if homosexuality didn't matter to Jesus, why should it matter to Christians?
 
That's not true at all.

Romans 1 has a lot to say on homosexuality among many other examples in the New Testament. Those who say that God's condemnation of homosexuality is restricted to the Old Testament or the law of moses have either never read the bible or are trying to mislead others/justify their homosexuality.

I have read several English translations of the new testament. Which is why, for example, I know off the top of my head that is is not claimed that Jesus wrote Romans 1. It's attributed to Paul. You should know that if you've read it, since the text itself very clearly states that it was written by Paul.

I think you don't know your bible as well as you make out.

If you think I'm wrong, tell me which verses you think Jesus wrote regarding homosexuality. Not Paul. Jesus. Paul was not Jesus. People are talking about Jesus' teachings, not Paul's.

If you like, I can give alternative interpretations of the verses in the new testament that some people interpret as condemning homosexuality. It won't take long, as there are only 2 of them. 3 if you count the verses in Timothy, but they're a copy of the ones in Corinthians.
 
Right now I really must sleep.

I look forward to reading through this debate in the morning. Hopefully the mods don't remove it all before I get the chance. :(

I feel it will be a highly amusing - if a little frustrating - rollercoaster ride to nowhere.
 
I'm a big fan of logic, reason and empirical evidence.

TheDeplorable said:
God created life.

These kind of things are not going to win you many supporters.

Incidentally, people being "bothered" is far less likely to be through fear of being wrong, than having someone turn up and say they've made the wrong choices and are somehow in need of pity for that.
 
If you were more attentive you would've noticed that my spelling is not that of an American.

If you were more attentive you'd have noticed the quote button next to posts. Next :p.



To be serious (for a change) I cannot comprehend how you can say something is immoral because of a book you have read.

How do others actions affect you?

Is someone else's "sin" somehow going to rub off on you?
 
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To which I say: If you're going to ignore the section of Leviticus that bans about tattoos, pork, shellfish, round haircuts, polyester and football, how can you possibly turn around and quote Leviticus 18:22 ("You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.") as irrefutable law?

Then there's the translation/interpretation issue as usual. For example, "abomination" is a dodgy translation in that sentence and completely inconsistent. The same Hebrew phrase occurs many times but it's not translated as "abomination" in all of them. Why not?

Interpretation too...why, for example, does the traditional interpretion ignore part of the verse? There is definitely a reference to a woman in there. It seems likely that the writer intended it to mean something. If they meant to say that it's completely forbidden for a man to have sex with another man, end of story, why didn't they write that? Why add the bit about a woman? I think that implies that bit is part of the intended meaning, so I think that verse is about gender roles. Not that a man shouldn't have sex with another man but that a man shouldn't be womanly when having sex with another man. Whatever that meant to bronze age Jews. I'm sure some people will see that as an implausible interpretation, but I think that's partly due to familiarity with the traditional interpretation and partly due to living in a society with far, far less rigid gender roles.

Consider, for example, Caesar's alleged affair with King Nicomedes of Bithynia. It caused him quite a bit of bother in his political career. Not because it was alleged he had an affair with another man. His enemies couldn't have made much political capital from that allegation because most Romans wouldn't have cared much if at all about it. There was some "traditional Roman values" politics going on, but the really damaging part of the claim was that Caesar had been womanly in his affair with the King of Bithynia. There was political grafitti calling Caesar the Queen of Bithynia. Even in a society far less gendered than bronze age Jewish society, breaking gender roles was seriously taboo.
 
also there should not be any mention of hell in the bible, that's a miss translation as well.
although you still have the lake of fire passage. but that's also likened to the waste fires, which didn't burn indefinitely.

its a completely mess, used for people to hide behind, so they can be absolutely disgusting humans. Which wouldn't be an issue if they kept it to themselves, rather than trying to get laws changed or enacted to force it on others.
 
[..]
What a terrible picture you've created of God. You must truely hate Him. Tell me, what is it about Christian teaching that terrifies you so much? Is it possibly the idea that it might be true? If so, then doesn't it terrify you that you're living the wrong life?

If it's true, then I want the chance to spit on the petulant megalomanical abusive pyscho nutjob. No human who has ever lived was or is anywhere near as bad.

I've read the Christian bible. I think it's the worst possible insult that I have seen written against any god. The terrible picture of this god you refer to is the one in that bible.

Fortunately, I don't believe it. I don't hate some mythical entity I don't believe exists. That would be a bizarre thing to do.
 
You have clearly chosen not to. I find it highly amusing that you're denying you've chosen not to follow the God of the Bible. Why would you say that?

It wasn't a choice because a simple choice of either "believe" or "not believe" would be ignorant.

When faced with any choice, it is insane to simply make a choice of yes or no. In order to make the correct choice you need to make what is known as a decision, it is a conclusion or resolution reached after consideration, not indoctrination.

This is what you, as a believer, are inherently incapable of, because you only really have one choice, you aren't even allowed to make a decision for yourself. You just have one choice. You cant even consider facts like the non-existence of Adam and Eve, because the choice is already made for you via indoctrination.

If you're honestly saying a choice that your parents have made for you, is your decision, then you are very deeply deluded.


You just contradicted yourself. You just admitted now that you've chosen not to follow him.

I said "decide", and that's not the same thing as choosing a God to worship like you're picking a sweet. I have come to conclusions which render God out of the question. I have concluded that there is no reason to even make a choice in the first place!

This isn't some multiple choice quiz lmao. Did you choose you like Jesus more than Mohammed? Or did your parents make that choice?

My conclusion of there being no reason to even make the choice of a God is based on hundreds of different factors. Factors you can't even consider.

You choose not to follow God's moral teachings because you prefer your sins. Keep up.

You still assume it's a choice for me lol. I cant choose to follow something or not when said thing doesn't even exist! It is impossible to follow OR not follow something which doesn't exist!
 
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Your username is highly appropriate.

Anyone who in this day and age still thinks sexuality is a choice is just... A complete delusional nutcase...

I find it difficult to accept that people like you still exist.

I don't think that's true at all, there are plenty of people who would identify as bisexual who often make a choice one way or the other so as to live a monogamous relationship. That would suggest that, at least in their case, how they act on their sexual urges is their choice.
 
I don't think that's true at all, there are plenty of people who would identify as bisexual who often make a choice one way or the other so as to live a monogamous relationship. That would suggest that, at least in their case, how they act on their sexual urges is their choice.

just no, their sexuality is bisexual and they didn't have a choice with that.
 
I have read several English translations of the new testament. Which is why, for example, I know off the top of my head that is is not claimed that Jesus wrote Romans 1. It's attributed to Paul. You should know that if you've read it, since the text itself very clearly states that it was written by Paul.

I think you don't know your bible as well as you make out.

I think you don't know the bible at all if you think Jesus wrote any of it. All the passages that relate what jesus said are not him sitting down and writing it, they are first-hand accounts of his teaching or inspired prophecy by people like Paul.

I've made it clear that the bible in theory is the word of God, all of it, it is therefore all God's and by extension Jesus teachings. By Paul teaching that homosexuality is still a sin as it ever was post the atonement, crucifixion and redirection of Christ it gives clear instruction that 'no homo' was never repealed, rescinded or fulfilled in the law. It's not difficult.
 
And yet they do have choice on how to act on their urges.

again no, seeing as you believ no person can be sin free. then why do you think gays should be held to a higher standard than you.
sex is an almighty powerful drive and theres been only a handful of people in history who can resist it.

please show me in the bible where it says gay is a choice, hint you wont find it.
despite all the nonsense you and your kind sprout.

how about you know, believe what you want and stop forcing your illogical make believe stories on to the rest of us
 
also there should not be any mention of hell in the bible, that's a miss translation as well.
although you still have the lake of fire passage. but that's also likened to the waste fires, which didn't burn indefinitely.

its a completely mess, used for people to hide behind, so they can be absolutely disgusting humans. Which wouldn't be an issue if they kept it to themselves, rather than trying to get laws changed or enacted to force it on others.

Then there's the translation/interpretation issue as usual. For example, "abomination" is a dodgy translation in that sentence and completely inconsistent. The same Hebrew phrase occurs many times but it's not translated as "abomination" in all of them. Why not?

Interpretation too...why, for example, does the traditional interpretion ignore part of the verse? There is definitely a reference to a woman in there. It seems likely that the writer intended it to mean something. If they meant to say that it's completely forbidden for a man to have sex with another man, end of story, why didn't they write that? Why add the bit about a woman? I think that implies that bit is part of the intended meaning, so I think that verse is about gender roles. Not that a man shouldn't have sex with another man but that a man shouldn't be womanly when having sex with another man. Whatever that meant to bronze age Jews. I'm sure some people will see that as an implausible interpretation, but I think that's partly due to familiarity with the traditional interpretation and partly due to living in a society with far, far less rigid gender roles.

Consider, for example, Caesar's alleged affair with King Nicomedes of Bithynia. It caused him quite a bit of bother in his political career. Not because it was alleged he had an affair with another man. His enemies couldn't have made much political capital from that allegation because most Romans wouldn't have cared much if at all about it. There was some "traditional Roman values" politics going on, but the really damaging part of the claim was that Caesar had been womanly in his affair with the King of Bithynia. There was political grafitti calling Caesar the Queen of Bithynia. Even in a society far less gendered than bronze age Jewish society, breaking gender roles was seriously taboo.

Anyone who alleges that there are dodgey translations in the KJV are denigrating the extensive peer reviewed process it underwent by upwards 20 scholars and theologians who were recognised as the greatest minds of their day. Saying that they got it wrong or didn't understand how to translate properly would be equivalent to saying Stephen hawking is a moron.

These people translated from the textus receptus which was a collection of hundreds of manuscripts of various parts of the bible which agreed in most cases. When translating they discussed the meaning and intent behind each scripture fully and would have taken each words context in to consideration. Where they added words so as to aid the flow of the spoken verse that were not in the documents translated these are in italics so as to be clearly discernable as later additions.

Just as in our language the same word can have differing meanings dependant on context so too can Hebrew, Greek etc
 
just lol, how about you peer review it now using the latest knowledge. in no way is kjv correct or ever was.

no, wonder why. hiding behind your book, whist being untrue to yourself and going against what your own bible tells you.

you think they had the knowledge and the expertise over 400 years ago, that we have now.
 
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again no, seeing as you believ no person can be sin free. then why do you think gays should be held to a higher standard than you.
sex is an almighty powerful drive and theres been only a handful of people in history who can resist it.

please show me in the bible where it says gay is a choice, hint you wont find it.
despite all the nonsense you and your kind sprout.

how about you know, believe what you want and stop forcing your illogical make believe stories on to the rest of us

From the start I've said that I'm not forcing my beliefs on anyone, I'm merely refuting, with scriptural evidence, those people who have clearly never read or understood the bible when it comes down to homosexuality. It says it is a sin, i've not tried to say that the bible says whether it's a choice or not, you might be confusing deplorable with myself. I've just stated what it says in the bible and asked a few questions that I would be interested in understanding along the way like the one you yourself have provided an unsatisfactory, imo of course, answer to
 
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