Bakers refuse Gay wedding cake - update: Supreme Court rules in favour of Bakers

Frightful Boar said:
Really? You can't figure it out?

They could

  • work harder
  • be more polite
  • commit to their role better
  • be more punctual

The list could go on. And probably as you're going to argue, this is how it would work.

I'm a random employer, I hire a woman for a job I'd really rather a man do because I prefer to hire men, but obviously she's made a really huge effort in learning about my company and the job. She's always on time for work, does her job brilliantly, never complains and tries to introduce new things to her role to increase her productivity.

This makes it more likely that I will hire another woman because she is making women more appealing as employees.

I consider blondes less attractive than brunettes but I'd do one if she had big enough breasts. If that makes it easier to understand for "people like you"
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Trolling ;)
 
Frightful Boar said:
Really? You can't figure it out?

They could

  • work harder
  • be more polite
  • commit to their role better
  • be more punctual

The list could go on. And probably as you're going to argue, this is how it would work.

I'm a random employer, I hire a woman for a job I'd really rather a man do because I prefer to hire men, but obviously she's made a really huge effort in learning about my company and the job. She's always on time for work, does her job brilliantly, never complains and tries to introduce new things to her role to increase her productivity.

This makes it more likely that I will hire another woman because she is making women more appealing as employees.

I consider blondes less attractive than brunettes but I'd do one if she had big enough breasts. If that makes it easier to understand for "people like you"
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Why are white males inherently hard workers, more polite, commit to their role and are more punctual?

Why are black males inherently workshy, less polite, less likely to commit to their role and are constantly late?

You cant judge a whole race or section of society by the actions of one person. My cousin is a straight, white male who has never had a job in his life since leaving school 5-6 years ago.
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
Why are white males inherently hard workers, more polite, commit to their role and are more punctual?

Why are black males inherently workshy, less polite, less likely to commit to their role and are constantly late?

You cant judge a whole race or section of society by the actions of one person. My cousin is a straight, white male who has never had a job in his life since leaving school 5-6 years ago.
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I didn't make those observations, but plainly you are doing so. I'm not saying those stereotypes are correct or not, but it seems as though entire societies have those biases which is why we have positive discrimination.

And yes you can judge a whole race or section of society by the actions of one person. People do it every day. All over the world.

I suggest you refresh yourself on the meaning of the word "can't" (as well as its spelling).
 
dowie said:
I didn't say they could - I said they could take a stance on issues

they're not discriminating against which people they're serving they're choosing what work they will take on
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A distinction that may be more semantic than real if the business is choosing which work to take on by vetting the people making the order.

Frightful Boar said:
Don't try to draw conclusions mate, you're terrible at it. That's absolutely not what I've said or believe.

I'll say it so even you can understand it and you won't have to twist my words or draw any more conclusions...

If a person's hiring preference is a straight, white male, that's fine with me. If their preference is a gay, chinese female, that's also fine with me and to heck with them. While I appreciate that a predilection for straight, white males may be more common, positive discrimination is terrible. People who aren't straight, white males should even the playing field by becoming as, if not more, appealing.
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Why should arbitrary characteristics which have no bearing on ability be a reason for choosing one candidate over another? Your subsequent list also doesn't appear to indicate how the candidate is to overcome your initial reluctance to hire them - if they never have the chance to positively influence you by being in the role then how are you (or they) supposed to change anything?
 
Frightful Boar said:
I didn't make those observations, but plainly you are doing so. I'm not saying those stereotypes are correct or not, but it seems as though entire societies have those biases which is why we have positive discrimination.

And yes you can judge a whole race or section of society by the actions of one person. People do it every day. All over the world.

I suggest you refresh yourself on the meaning of the word "can't" (as well as its spelling).
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Except you did make those observations by saying that minorities should become more appealing and when I asked how you gave me a list of how you think they could, which means you think they are less than their white male counterparts for some arbitrary reason.

A person can judge a whole race by the actions of one person but that doesn't mean they are right, or deserve to be a part of the white male privilege or even the human race.

The sign of someone who has lost an argument and has no rebuttal is when you end your argument by commenting on someones grammar or spelling. So I missed an apostrophe whoop-de-doo.
 
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semi-pro waster said:
Why should arbitrary characteristics which have no bearing on ability be a reason for choosing one candidate over another? Your subsequent list also doesn't appear to indicate how the candidate is to overcome your initial reluctance to hire them - if they never have the chance to positively influence you by being in the role then how are you (or they) supposed to change anything?
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Dunno, is it human nature? Look - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...than-the-unattractive-says-study-8809987.html

better looking people more likely to get a job. The injustice of it all! How dare we have preferences and personal feelings. We should all be uber logical automatons!

And my subsequent list does indicate how the candidate is to positively influence an employer with a bias - "I prefer to hire men, but obviously she's made a really huge effort in learning about my company and the job"
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
Except you did make those observations by saying that minorities should become more appealing and when I asked how you gave me a list of how you think they could, which means you think they are less than their white male counterparts for some arbitrary reason.

A person can judge a whole race by the actions of one person but that doesn't mean they are right, or deserve to be a part of the white male privilege.

The sign of someone who has lost an argument and has no rebuttal is when you end your argument by commenting on someones grammar or spelling. So I missed an apostrophe whoop-de-doo.
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Yeah, you've got that wrong because you plainly need to be spoon fed.

When I said, for example, they could work harder, it's harder than their colleagues, harder than the average person. Not harder than some vision you seem to have of a lazy black person.

I see you've changed your tune about a person being able to judge a whole race by the actions of one person. I'm glad I could help.

Criticising a person's feeble grasp of language comprehension, or spelling, isn't a sign of a lost argument at all. That's only an opinion furthered by people who are too lazy or, dare I say it, not educated enough to be able to communicate effectively.
 
The only vision I have of a lazy black male is one you gave to me, you said minorities should try harder and are only hired to fit a quota. Then I asked how these minorities could be more appealing and you said because they are lazy, impolite and poor time keepers, these are your own words not mine.

I missed an apostrophe on one word now I'm some kind of dunce?

Keep trying.
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
The sign of someone who has lost an argument and has no rebuttal is when you end your argument by commenting on someones grammar or spelling. So I missed an apostrophe whoop-de-doo.
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It really isn't, this is just a defense tactic by people who get their spelling/grammar criticised, to make themselves feel like they're winning. Pro-tip, a lot of people don't realise they're making mistakes until someone else points it out to them.
 
semi-pro waster said:
A distinction that may be more semantic than real if the business is choosing which work to take on by vetting the people making the order.
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Then they'd be discriminating against people - which is rather different... If a straight guy had asked for the same cake he'd likely have got the same refusal. They're not refusing to serve a person they're refusing to create something with a message they're opposed to. That is their right IMO, their 'editorial stance' so to speak... no they're not a newspaper turning down an advert but they're in the business of creating, they have views and they've got the right to express their views and not express views they don't agree with. They've turned down the product/political stance not the customer - ergo I really hope they win this case.
 
TheLegendOfMart said:
The only vision I have of a lazy black male is one you gave to me, you said minorities should try harder and are only hired to fit a quota. Then I asked how these minorities could be more appealing and you said because they are lazy, impolite and poor time keepers, these are your own words not mine.

I missed an apostrophe on one word now I'm some kind of dunce?

Keep trying.
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Please quote where I said those exact things. Otherwise I'm calling you a liar and someone who will say anything in order to win an argument.

I'll be specific so you can't wrangle out of it:

- The only vision I have of a lazy black male is one you gave to me
- you said minorities should try harder
- only hired to fit a quota
- they are lazy, impolite and poor time keepers

Seeing as "these are your own words not mine." that shouldn't be too difficult.
 
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spoffle said:
It really isn't, this is just a defense tactic by people who get their spelling/grammar criticised, to make themselves feel like they're winning. Pro-tip, a lot of people don't realise they're making mistakes until someone else points it out to them.
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I don't mind people pointing out spelling mistakes but not as a counterpoint to try and dismiss my argument.
 
dowie said:
Then they'd be discriminating against people - which is rather different... If a straight guy had asked for the same cake he'd likely have got the same refusal. They're not refusing to serve a person they're refusing to create something with a message they're opposed to. That is their right IMO, their 'editorial stance' so to speak... no they're not a newspaper turning down an advert but they're in the business of creating, they have views and they've got the right to express their views and not express views they don't agree with. They've turned down the product/political stance not the customer - ergo I really hope they win this case.
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Did you see the link earlier that in Northern Ireland it is slightly different and that political opinions are also protected when it comes to being offered goods and services?
 
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