Bakers refuse Gay wedding cake - update: Supreme Court rules in favour of Bakers

[Sliver]

I can assure you I am utterly intractable, five minutes in a room or not. I didn't mean any offense to your family, but you brought them up, not me.

It's not how a statement is presented it's how it's received. You could apologise to me for suggesting my sisters marriage is worthless to society. That would be something I could accept and then forgive you for.

 

[Tefal]

I can assure you I am utterly intractable, .

so you are now saying your view point is not the result of reason but belief?

as anyone who had come to their view by reason would be open to the possibility of their reasoning being wrong or incomplete.


and given that you still have not actually said what the negatives are nor how trivialization is a negative i'm going to go play with some other toys.

 

[Tombo]

drunk people do

talking of strange social situations though club antichrists birthday party is tomorrow

if you want any kind of first hand information or experience about half of the topic of this thread its worth a visit. also balloons and cake

just excuse the lesbians for some reason they always end up having sex in the bar area :/

What a fitting club name

 

[Schlong&Stable]

I keep asking you what your views are based on, and why you feel you have the right to just what is of value and or acceptable, but you don't want to answer. Do I read in to that as you can't answer?

I don't understand the question. Are you asking me why I think my views are more important to me than someone else's...?

Please cut the 'you can't answer me' shtick. It's very dull. If you want my attention you don't need to be rude. I didn't dodge questions, it's just hard to see and reply to everyone.

 

[spoffle]

I'm all for better communication so I'll take that one on board.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

so you are now saying your view point is not the result of reason but belief?

as anyone who had come to their view by reason would be open to the possibility of their reasoning being wrong or incomplete.

and given that you still have not actually said what the negatives are nor how trivialization is a negative i'm going to go play with some other toys.

I am intractable in the face of abuse, yes. I've stated what the negatives are and explained the trivialisation. I've also said that if you want something more verbose you'll have to wait. I'm working on a mobile phone here.

 

[RDM]

The slogan on the cake was a political slogan, Gay Marriage is a political policy...if the law doesn't protect political beliefs then why should anyone be forced to make a slogan, in whatever form, about something they do not politically support?

If he had refused to bake a cake for a gay couple simply becasue they were gay then you would have a point, but it was the support gay marriage slogan they objected to, not the actual sexuality of the person ordering it.

All the Gay activists, or whoever they were, had to do is go and get their cake made somewhere else.

I am going to assume you have now changed your mind about it being a political slogan?

 

[spoffle]

I don't understand the question. Are you asking me why I think my views are more important to me than someone else's...?

Please cut the 'you can't answer me' shtick. It's very dull. If you want my attention you don't need to be rude. I didn't dodge questions, it's just hard to see and reply to everyone.

I don't need to cut it, I've asked you quite a few times now, and nothing.

I'm asking you where you got your view point from, what was it that made you form the views you have related to marriage, and what is it that makes you think you can judge whether reasons for divorce are valid or no.

 

[Castiel]

If you have a look at the document I posted last night you will see that it also covers the provision of goods and services and is not restricted to just nationalism and socialism.

However I am now starting to get a bit confused as plenty of posters have been arguing that this is a political position and not a discrimination position but now we are saying it isn't a political position, isn't a discrimination issue but is a legal issue?

To be fair I think the issue isn't very straight forward in the first place, both regards the legality and politics of it all. Perhaps a legal challenge is needed just to get some clarity.

In that case, if you perform a same sex marriage in Northern Ireland what would you be charged with? You wouldn't, the marriage just wouldn't be recognised.

I'm not sure you can perform a same sex marriage without it first having legal recognition, because any ceremony you perform would not be a marriage in the first place. However, I don't know, has it been attempted?

In any case Gay Marriage isn't recognised in Northern Ireland, you said it yourself, they only recognise rights in accordance with Civil Partnerships.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

It's not how a statement is presented it's how it's received. You could apologise to me for suggesting my sisters marriage is worthless to society. That would be something I could accept and then forgive you for.

No. I said what I meant. If you're upset you ought not to have used your sisters condition as an example in an Internet debate.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

I don't need to cut it, I've asked you quite a few times now, and nothing.

I'm asking you where you got your view point from, what was it that made you form the views you have related to marriage, and what is it that makes you think you can judge whether reasons for divorce are valid or no.

The sum total of my life experience. Look, I am not going around preaching to people or casting judgements in the street. But when there is a debate I will say my piece. I don't claim to be the sole arbiter of truth, but I AM the sole arbiter of MY truth.

 

[Castiel]

I am going to assume you have now changed your mind about it being a political slogan?

The slogan is a political position, the act itself is a legal position. You appeal to the political authorities to gain legislative change for a legal opinion. So the campaign is political, not the gay marriage, that remains a legal issue.

 

[elmarko]

No way do people argue like this in real life. I know you're being purposely obtuse. RL and IRL are staples of internet jargon.

People are much more "in your face" and opinionated online cos they have an audience. Most of the loudmouths on here are probably mice in a strange social situation.

I'll have you know I'm just as annoying & opinionated in real life.

 

[Sliver]

No. I said what I meant. If you're upset you ought not to have used your sisters condition as an example in an Internet debate.

Ridiculous and callous of you. In the context of the conversation I used the first example that came to mind which happened to be my sister. It was relevant and apt to do so and it trashed your assertion about childless couples are not being a benefit to society. The fact you're not willing to apologise for the insult to my sister and all the other childless couples around the UK, simply shows what kind of person you are.

 

[Castiel]

I'll have you know I'm just as annoying & opinionated in real life.

I'm even worse, mainly because I can't intimidate people on here as easily as I can in real life...

 

[spoffle]

The sum total of my life experience. Look, I am not going around preaching to people or casting judgements in the street. But when there is a debate I will say my piece. I don't claim to be the sole arbiter of truth, but I AM the sole arbiter of MY truth.

You're missing the point, I am not saying you think you are the sole arbiter of truth, I am asking you a genuine question, as it seems like your views stem from a religious belief system, as there isn't really any other reasonable suggestion for why you have the views you do about marriage and divorce.

You seem against the notion of the evolution of society, and seem to believe that the institution of marriage is something that should never change or evolve with the times.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

I'll have you know I'm just as annoying & opinionated in real life.

Of this I had no doubt!

 

[Schlong&Stable]

You're missing the point, I am not saying you think you are the sole arbiter of truth, I am asking you a genuine question, as it seems like your views stem from a religious belief system, as there isn't really any other reasonable suggestion for why you have the views you do about marriage and divorce.

You seem against the notion of the evolution of society, and seem to believe that the institution of marriage is something that should never change or evolve with the times.

I am not religious if that is what you're asking. My family is not religious either. I am far removed from that.

 

[RDM]

To be fair I think the issue isn't very straight forward in the first place, both regards the legality and politics of it all. Perhaps a legal challenge is needed just to get some clarity.

It would be somewhat ironic if in forcing this situation the baker is then responsible for same sex marriage being legal in Northern Ireland.

I'm not sure you can perform a same sex marriage without it first having legal recognition, because any ceremony you perform would not be a marriage in the first place. However, I don't know, has it been attempted?

In any case Gay Marriage isn't recognised in Northern Ireland, you said it yourself, they only recognise rights in accordance with Civil Partnerships.

You can try whatever you like but it wont be recognised. Get a LGBT friendly minister to perform the ceremony etc but you wouldn't be able to get a marriage certificate. You wouldn't be doing anything illegal, just not doing something legal. The joy of the UK legal system is that we generally work on prohibition rather than permission, so something has to be made a criminal offence.

 

[elmarko]

I'm even worse, mainly because I can't intimidate people on here as easily as I can in real life...

- excellent!, I love a good debate in person as much as online.

The only thing which bugs is when a person can't justify their view, I don't really care if people agree with me or not. In person I can be more persuasive as you can read their body language & how they respond to each point.

Online is shooting in the dark.

It would be somewhat ironic if in forcing this situation the baker is then responsible for same sex marriage being legal in Northern Ireland.

That would be pretty funny tbh.