Bakers refuse Gay wedding cake - update: Supreme Court rules in favour of Bakers

spoffle · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:05

Castiel said:
I'm even worse, mainly because I can't intimidate people on here as easily as I can in real life...

I find people can be a bit awkard around me, as my friend says, I look like a wild man from the mountains out for some hunting or something, as well as being very heavy and wide.

godinman · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:11

Grrr, I'm well 'ard me. People double-take and then step away because I look so manly and intimidating.

Castiel · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:12

RDM said:
It would be somewhat ironic if in forcing this situation the baker is then responsible for same sex marriage being legal in Northern Ireland.

If only all Northern Ireland's problems were so easily solved.

RDM said:
You can try whatever you like but it wont be recognised. Get a LGBT friendly minister to perform the ceremony etc but you wouldn't be able to get a marriage certificate. You wouldn't be doing anything illegal, just not doing something legal. The joy of the UK legal system is that we generally work on prohibition rather than permission, so something has to be made a criminal offence.

You are not conducting a gay wedding either, which is the point. It isn't recognised...at all. Even Gay Marriages from elsewhere only receive the same recognition as civil partnerships. I never said it was a criminal offence to conduct a gay wedding, it is illegal however, Gay Marriage is illegal, I never stated it was a criminal offence, the two are not the same.

Castiel · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:15

elmarko said:
- excellent!, I love a good debate in person as much as online.

The only thing which bugs is when a person can't justify their view, I don't really care if people agree with me or not. In person I can be more persuasive as you can read their body language & how they respond to each point.

Online is shooting in the dark.

Quite. The other problem is that you lose that free flow of ideas, arguments and rebuttals online that you get in person...also it is harder to sift through the nonsense and just plain outright rubbish with a look or (intimidation mode) growl....lol.

dirtychinchilla · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:18

Can I ask again, Thompson, why same sex marriage has no value society? It's made a lot of people very happy, thus far.

Castiel · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:19

dirtychinchilla said:
Can I ask again, Thompson, why same sex marriage has no value society? It's made a lot of people very happy, thus far.

Indeed, the fact that it makes people happy and binds them into a family unit has inherent value to society.

spoffle · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:21

godinman said:
Grrr, I'm well 'ard me. People double-take and then step away because I look so manly and intimidating.

That wasn't really the essence of what I meant, more along the lines of the 23 stone wild man is down from the mountains hunting people again, to drag off back to the cave.

Schlong&Stable · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:22

dirtychinchilla said:
Can I ask again, Thompson, why same sex marriage has no value society? It's made a lot of people very happy, thus far.

I've answered this; marriage is about children. No children means no value for society. I am not saying homosexuals should not have relationships or even enjoy some legal rights on par with civil unions. I just consider marriage to be something other than a romantic relationship.

RDM · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:22

Castiel said:
If only all Northern Ireland's problems were so easily solved.

The place depresses me to be honest, I certainly have no desire to go back there. Unionists having to have their parades and Nationalists getting uppity about the national flag. Pathetic children the lot of them.

Castiel said:
You are not conducting a gay wedding either, which is the point. It isn't recognised...at all. Even Gay Marriages from elsewhere only receive the same recognition as civil partnerships. I never said it was a criminal offence to conduct a gay wedding, it is illegal however, Gay Marriage is illegal, I never stated it was a criminal offence, the two are not the same.

"Illegal" and "not legal" are not the same either. An awful lot of marriages occur in the UK that are not legal, they aren't illegal either, just not recognised. There are generally sanctions of some sort for doing something illegal. Which was the point I was making earlier. However minds seem to be have made up so shall we just leave it there as it will change nothing?

spoffle · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:24

Thompson_NCL said:
I've answered this; marriage is about children. No children means no value for society. I am not saying homosexuals should not have relationships or even enjoy some legal rights on par with civil unions. I just consider marriage to be somen hung other than a romantic relationship.

But why is it about children? What is this view based on that allows you to explicitly state what marriage means for society on a whole?

godinman · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:25

spoffle said:
That wasn't really the essence of what I meant, more along the lines of the 23 stone wild man is down from the mountains hunting people again, to drag off back to the cave.

Only gently mocking the few 'I'm big an hard' posts.

Schlong&Stable · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:25

Castiel said:
Indeed, the fact that it makes people happy and binds them into a family unit has inherent value to society.

Was it salt and pepper who said:

1+1 is 2, 2 is me and you
2+1 is 3, 3 is family.

Two people are not a family.

spoffle · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:26

godinman said:
Only gently mocking the few 'I'm big an hard' posts.

Sure, I am just emphasising it's more "what the hell?" than "big hard man coming through"

spoffle · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:27

Thompson_NCL said:
Was it salt and pepper who said:

1+1 is 2, 2 is me and you
2+1 is 3, 3 is family.

Two people are not a family.

Based on?

RDM · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:28

spoffle said:
Based on?

Song lyrics it seems.

dirtychinchilla · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:30

spoffle · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:31

RDM said:
Song lyrics it seems.

So he gets his views on marriage from song lyrics? :eek:

Pestilence · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:34

I wish I could base all of my beliefs and values on song lyrics. Life would be so much more... violent.

dirtychinchilla · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:35

The song is a metaphor. The purpose of marriage is not to have children; you can have them with or without marriage, evidently.

Castiel · 10 Jul 2014 at 17:40

RDM said:
The place depresses me to be honest, I certainly have no desire to go back there. Unionists having to have their parades and Nationalists getting uppity about the national flag. Pathetic children the lot of them.

I don't understand it all either, it just seems all so pointless and ridiculous.

RDM said:
T"Illegal" and "not legal" are not the same either. An awful lot of marriages occur in the UK that are not legal, they aren't illegal either, just not recognised. There are generally sanctions of some sort for doing something illegal. Which was the point I was making earlier. However minds seem to be have made up so shall we just leave it there as it will change nothing?

Ok, then Gay Marriage is not legal, although (and while we are all being pedants here) illegal can be defined simply as forbidden in Law....which conducting a Gay Marriage in Northern Ireland remains...that there is no criminalisation of it through the reason of it's processes simply having no recognition is immaterial.

This 'illegality' is illustrated by your own point that even Same Sex Marriages conducted legally and recognised in other countries both foreign and domestic are also not recognised, and are only given the same rights as Civil Partnerships.