Baroness Thatcher has died.

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Craterloads said:
Well even joking and mocking, seems like it's not allowed in this thread.
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Joke and mock if you like. I won't delete it as long as it doesn't cross the line. People are entitled to their opinions but when those opinions spill over in to posts such as "Rot in hell", "Good riddance" and other such disrespectful tripe, they will get deleted.

Post what you like about her. Opinions good or bad. It's the disrespect of the fact that a person has died that we take issue with, not people complaining that she was a bad leader.
 
They only reason why we are talking about Maggie is because there was a war which got in the middle, otherwise their own party would have kicked her.

She did some things well and others not so, like any other human being, personally I do not understand either side, she was a mediocre stateswoman but looked like she really cared about the UK.

She had the right view about how to carry herself, and if most politicians cared more about their ideals than about the weekly opinion poll, we would be in a much different world nowadays.

RIP
 
31. Supported section 28 with the quote "Children are being taught that they have an inalienable right to be gay"

32. Refused to apply sanctions to South Africa when almost all other nations did in protest to apartheid.

33. Unemployment went to over 3 million from the 1.5 million unemployed when she took office.

34. The Poll TAX
 
smr said:
1. Thatcherism, with lower income taxes, less government interference and standing against dictatorships, became the philosophy in much of the democratic world after she came to power on May 4, 1979.

2. Refusal to compromise with communism helped bring down Soviet Union.

3. Threw the Argentines out of the Falklands after the invasion in 1982.

4. Showed there is no glass ceiling preventing women rising to the top.

5. Before becoming an MP, helped to perfect a way of preserving ice-creams as a chemist at J Lyons & Co.

History ... Maggie's victory in 1979
History ... Maggie's victory in 1979
6. Maiden speech in the Commons in 1960 was in support of her private member’s bill that forced local councils to hold meetings in public.

7. More than 1.5million tenants bought council homes after 1980 right-to-buy law.

8. Supported issues that surprised critics, such as the decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1967.

9. Backed Labour bills to ban hare coursing in 1969 and 1975.

10. In Ted Heath’s 1970-74 government, beat cuts that would have meant people paying to borrow library books.

11. Sell-off of state-run firms made them competitive and cut taxpayers’ huge costs.

12. During her 11 years as PM, gross domestic product – the chief measure of national wealth – rose 23.3 per cent.

13. Within three years of taking power, inflation was at 8.6 per cent from highs of 18 per cent.

14. Stood firm on terrorism, rejecting blackmail from IRA hunger strikers.

15. Signed 1985 Hillsborough Agreement in Northern Ireland that led to the Good Friday peace deal.

16. Only PM to win three terms in the 20th Century.

17. In 1988, long before it was fashionable, made a speech on global warming.

18. Kept the Pound by opposing Chancellor Nigel Lawson’s plans to join the ERM and adopt a single EU currency.

19. Persuaded President George Bush to expel Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1990.

20. Saved Britain from rule by Neil Kinnock, stepping down from a leadership vote on November 22, 1990, to avoid splitting the party. It helped John Major win the 1992 election, keeping Kinnock out.

21. Promoted self-reliance, hitting out at people who expected others to solve their problems in a 1987 interview.

mpu

22. With privatisation, created new shareholders with a stake in the country’s wealth.

23. Is wrongly seen as dividing the country. Topped a poll as Britain’s greatest post-War leader last year, with 34 per cent of the vote.

24. Changed Labour, who dropped plans for nuclear disarmament, scrapped public ownership and stopped kowtowing to the unions.

25. Made Britain competitive in world markets for the first time since the 1930s.

26. The Iranian Embassy siege of 1980 was ended by the SAS on her say-so. Britain then escaped similar terrorism until the rise of Muslim suicide bombers.

27. Saved Hong Kong from a communist makeover in 1997 by negotiating a deal that obliges China to leave the economy unchanged until 2047.

28. Won a rebate from the EU that since 1984 has given us back £3billion a year.

29. Top earners paid 98p in the Pound income tax in 1979. By 1988 Mrs T had it down to 40p.

30. Beat union power, making it possible for The Sun to shine at its new HQ in Wapping, East London, in 1986.
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1. As Education secretary under Edward Heath in a foretaste of what is to come, stops free milk for school children. No chance of the widely praised 'free fruit' scheme ever being Tory policy! She later deregulates school meals so all they have on the menu is burger and chips! The health of the nation was not something Thatcher thought any of her concern.

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2. Shamelessly uses the 'race card' to get elected PM in 1979! (Though I wont claim her to be the first Tory leader to use this and certainly not the last!) "We are being flooded!" she asserts despite figures showing emigration higher than immigration and immigration at its lowest post-war level. Her idols are Keith Joseph (who ruined his own chance of being leader with a demon eyed rant on TV about sterilising the poor (I jest not!!)) and Enoch Powell (the 'intellectual' racist). She promotes Keith 'Eugenics' Joseph to Education Minister!

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3. Monetarism! Disastrous policy of trying to control money supply. In the first of her two recessions (the worst since the 1930's), one fifth of our industrial base is wiped out and unemployment is more than doubled, there are summer riots in every inner-city in the country. Not bad for her first 2 years in office! In the first of many U-turns (see point on 'myth of strong leader'), she abandons monetarism. Polls predict Labour landslide and despite the resolute support of the press, she is the most unpopular PM on record. How could she possibly get out of this one?

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4. The Falklands! In a gross piece of incompetence (or was it deliberate?) fails to avert the Falklands crisis by ignoring intelligence on the Argentine preparation for invasion in early 1982. Indeed she seems to positively encourage it by proposing scrapping the only warship we have there and having her defence secretary Nicholas Ridley openly say we didn't want the Falklands, thereby giving the impression we are not bothered about the islands! In 1978 when faced with the same intelligence, the Labour government quietly averts a war through diplomatic channels by threatening to send a taskforce. It's the classic tale, to divert attention from disastrous economic policies at home a crooked leader engages in a foreign war (except I'm not talking about Galtieri!). Perhaps Thatcher was getting advise from some of the brutal dictatorships she helped prop up in South America, "Would you like some more tea Mr Pinochet?". Number of British soldiers killed, 278, Argentines, 3000+. Blood on her hands anyone?

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5. Destruction of local democracy. The beauty of not having a written constitution, having the backing of the press, having a massive majority in parliament (despite only getting 42% of the vote, less than 1 in 3 of the electorate) and having a permanent inbuilt Tory hereditory second chamber is that Tory PMs can do whatever they like. If you dont like local democracy because they vote for someone else, just abolish it like Thatcher did and centralise everything from Whitehall and unelected Quangos who you carefully select. (Yes, Thatcher invented Quasi Autonomous Non-Governmental Organisations.) The popular GLC was scrapped despite over 80% of Londoners being opposed. Londoners have to wait over 13 years before getting an assembly back and electing Livingstone as its leader once again.

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6. Politicising the civil service. See point about QUANGOs above. Also if you dont like what statistics the statistics office is publishing, make sure you stop them collecting the statistics and stop them publishing them. The figures that were published on individual wealth and earnings each year were abolished in this way. The Office for National Statistics like the Bank of England was made independent by this Labour government and yes they have started publishing the wealth and earnings figures again.

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7. Regressive Taxation. Under Thatcher VAT increased from 8% to 17.5% and was also levied on utility bills for the first time as well. What she gave the rich in income tax cuts she took from the poor in indirect taxation. The proportion of GDP spent by the government under Thatcher stayed fairly static at around 40%. The difference was that rather than spend it on the NHS, housing or education she spent the money on defence, a massive expansion of the civil service (see point 6), paying the huge unemployment bill, and rising police salaries to keep them loyal in the face of massive civil unrest. The best part of all was that she shifted the burden of payment for all this onto the poor from the rich.

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8. The widening gap between rich and poor. This might not be such a bad thing if the gap had not been so massive in the first place. How can the richest 50% owning 97% of the wealth be fair? This was her starting position she moved wealth almost exclusively to the richest 10% at the expense of the poorest 50%.

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9. Spend, spend, spend! Abolishing credit controls seemed such a good idea, the economy booms on a consumer spending bubble....cue second crippling recession. Thanks Margaret! Not to mention the misery caused to millions of people suckered into debts and negative equity! Spend, spend, spend also applied to government borrowing which despite claims of financial prudence increased massively under Thatcher to fund income tax cuts for the rich.

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10. Homelessness for the young. Why should homelessness be the preserve of ageing tramps who remember the 1930's. No! Thatcher thought the opportunities should be open to all. Young beggars on the streets were Thatcher's invention. The legacy of massive youth unemployment and crime no-go areas for the police are still being fought today. There is a whole generation of people where crime and welfare culture was their only way of surviving and it became their mindset.

11. The Poll Tax! Regardless of how you view this in theory, apart from its regressive nature, it quite plainly was unworkable. They knew that it was going to be ridiculously expensive to collect, that there was overwhelming opposition to it (it ruined the 1991 census) and was going to mean massive non-payment and it was responsible for some of the worst rioting ever seen in central London but they pressed ahead anyway. Another U-turn inevitably came!

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12. The myth of the strong leader. This was a total invention of the press. Thatcher's only strength (if you could call it that) was that she had no principles at all! She was an anti-smoking campaigner who ended up on the payroll of British American Tobacco. She had to do a U-turn on her 'flagship' economic policy after 2 years because she had wrecked the economy (see point 3) (This was just one year after her famous speech in 1980 where she assured the party faithful she was going to stick to monetarist policies-"You turn if you want to...the lady's not for turning"-yeah right!!). The Poll Tax was a disaster which she had to U-turn on (but too late to save her from being stabbed in the back!). She went to Europe saying she was against federalism but signed its most federalist law (the Single European Act in 1986). She later claimed she was tricked on this. Did she even know what she was doing? Some strong leader that is! And to top it all off, even in departure she was weak. "I fight on, I fight to win" she said in her pompous way before quietly resigning hours later when confronted by Ministers like Geoffrey Howe!!! It was the final U-turn from a weak puppet leader whose only qualities (as far as the Tories were concerned) were she did what she was told.

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13. Degradation of the social professions. Social workers were virtually denounced as criminals! Teachers were so derided and there pay so eroded it barely survived as a profession and things like mental health, just loose them out on the streets, Thatcher's government didnt care what they did!

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14. Victorian Values. Yes before its Back to Basics successor under Major, Thatcher promised to take us back to Victorian morality and she nearly succeeded. We were not far away from child labour and seething slums of humanity and disease. I reckon Thatcher needed one more term for that!! She also took care to defend to the hilt her countless Ministers who were caught with their trousers down or hands in the till or both in some cases! Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer (3 times), Jonathon Aitkin (twice)... etc. etc. the list goes on.

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15. "There is no such thing as society". Did Thatcher foresee the 'playstation' generation? Selfishness as a virtue seemed to sum up her warped sense of morality to me.

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16. Over-privatisation and overt corruption. Oh the beauty of it, a totally dominant monopoly privatised at a discount price to big business (lots of it foreign owned) so they can cream off profits to their hearts content. Who can do without Water, Gas, Electricity? We can charge what we like! Plus we get the bonus of nice jobs on more Quangos OfWat, OfGas, Of-with taxpayers cash we go. With Ministers interchanging between the boardrooms of the newly privatised companies and the regulating boards on massive salaries. Even husband and wife teams, remember Mr and Mrs Howe, one a consultant with a privatised firm, his wife the regulator. Anyone for insider dealing calls out Mrs Archer! Oh jolly good show! Even industries that plainly werent feasible for privatisation like bus and rail, go for it, it wont hurt. And what shall we do with the money my dear? Well my son Mark has shares in a nice defence firm! Rather, still some left over for a nice reduction in the top rate of income tax as well.

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17. Even public service broadcasting couldnt escape. Relentless bullying of the BBC was started by Thatcher, she took this to a new level with Tebbit and various other ministers calling it the Bolshevic Broadcasting Company because it failed to replicate Sun editorial lines in its news broadcasts. In one of her last acts she even managed to wreck Channel 4' s public service commitment by changing its funding situation from one of subscription from ITV who sold its advertising space to total dependence on advertising.

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18. The divisiveness of the North-South divide in wealth. Look at the political map and you can still see where the Conservatives win most of their seats in the South East because of this.

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19. Regular winter crises in the NHS became the norm. The Tories argued these were inevitable because we couldnt afford to fund the NHS properly. There are no winter crises anymore!

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20. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher. This is probably the most surprising statistic of the lot when you consider the Tories so called strong standing on law and order. It just goes to demonstrate why we need a history lesson about Thatcher and not the lies printed in the right wing owned press.
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My thoughts go out to her family...

Browsing through the thread it occurred to me that any politician who polarizes opinion to this extent must actually have done something, whether its something right or something wrong will depend on your political viewpoint. I think I would much rather have a leader who inspires something, be it hatred or adoration, than the politicians we have at the moment who can barely inspire me to care!
 
I didn't dislike Thatcher but I never liked a lot of her policies, I do however recognise that an old woman with dementia has just died from a stroke and is survived by grieving family so a little bit of dignity wouldn't go amiss, especially from idiots spouting crap like "omg, she ruined our country".
 
Vampyre said:
Browsing through the thread it occurred to me that any politician who polarizes opinion to this extent must actually have done something, whether its something right or something wrong will depend on your political viewpoint. I think I would much rather have a leader who inspires something, be it hatred or adoration, than the politicians we have at the moment who can barely inspire me to care!
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Interesting point.
Do you (or anyone else) remember the episode of Spitting Image just after John Major announced his first cabinet? All of them were so dull and forgetful that Spitting Image made a sketch out of it. The only one I can remember though was "Norman Lamont, with the yoghurt pot".
 
Rilot said:
Joke and mock if you like. I won't delete it as long as it doesn't cross the line. People are entitled to their opinions but when those opinions spill over in to posts such as "Rot in hell", "Good riddance" and other such disrespectful tripe, they will get deleted.

Post what you like about her. Opinions good or bad. It's the disrespect of the fact that a person has died that we take issue with, not people complaining that she was a bad leader.
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Burnsy did you miss this? Are people not allowed to express thier black humour? you know this is how British people deal with tradegy and death.

Rilot can you clear this up, seems we are recieving conflicting criteria?
 
Rilot said:
Interesting point.
Do you (or anyone else) remember the episode of Spitting Image just after John Major announced his first cabinet? All of them were so dull and forgetful that Spitting Image made a sketch out of it. The only one I can remember though was "Norman Lamont, with the yoghurt pot".
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John Major loved his peas in Spitting Image :D
 
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