Baroness Thatcher has died.
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BBC coverage is totally OTT and simply demonstrates where their true allegiance lies. This was a woman who was reviled by working people, she destroyed lives and communities yet here are the BBC lauding her like she was some sort of saint - absolutely sickening, and yes I lived through her time in office as a person of working age.
northeast news doesnt side with her.. a lot of people up here have been jobless for years unable to find other work because of what she did..
only good thing she did is get a nissan to move up here but that wasnt enough to replace the ship yards and coal mines..
why did she think it was such a good idea to kick people out of work? how did that help people ?
only good thing she did is get a nissan to move up here but that wasnt enough to replace the ship yards and coal mines..
why did she think it was such a good idea to kick people out of work? how did that help people ?
I hate to break it to you but she wasnt hated by all..Id go so far as to say the majority are either apathetic about her or think well of her. So its no surprise the BBC, and others, are dedicating time to her death.
wait..there are people who have been jobless since the early 90s and its still somehow her fault?
really?The very same BBC that's traditionally accused of a left-leaning bias, and was vehemently anti-Thatcher while she was in power?
Pull the other one.
wait..there are people who have been jobless since the early 90s and its still somehow her fault?
people who have decided to stay in their small town do find it hard to find work in the local area because all their was, is coal mining..
honestly these people should have all moved away and the towns flattened. but they didnt.. i believe this bread the welfare state.. thats what i think but she was at the heart of it..
wait..there are people who have been jobless since the early 90s and its still somehow her fault?
LOL...
Time warp theory ?
People tend to overlook the basket case that was Britain under the labour government that preceded the Thatcher government and look to blame her for everything. How quickly people forget the 3 day week, power cuts, rubbish in the streets, the country held to ransom by trade union leaders believing they ran the country.
People also seem to think everyone apart from a few southern snobs hated her when they again forget she won 3 democratic elections, at least one by a landslide.
She was not without fault and certainly made mistakes, she was however a strong prime minister when Britain needed one and I cant help but feel we'd be in a much worse state now if one of the simpering pillocks we generally seem to get as politicians had been in her place.
There were huge achievements in the time she was in power, the end of the cold war and the very real threat of all out nuclear war and the right to buy allowing hard working families to own their own home amongst others as well as the undeniable massive social and employment problems.
Any strong leader will always have people for and against them which is of course fair comment. Unfortunately there's an awful lot of people who jump on the "I hate Maggie, she closed our mines and stole my school milk" bandwagon without putting any effort into understanding the facts and context of the time. The mines are a good example, Scargil did more to destroy the mining industry with his ego fuelled bid for power than Maggie ever did, something the Neil Kinnock mentions most times he's asked about it.
In the end history will judge the impact of Margaret Thatcher as a leader, but it's still too soon.
People also seem to think everyone apart from a few southern snobs hated her when they again forget she won 3 democratic elections, at least one by a landslide.
She was not without fault and certainly made mistakes, she was however a strong prime minister when Britain needed one and I cant help but feel we'd be in a much worse state now if one of the simpering pillocks we generally seem to get as politicians had been in her place.
There were huge achievements in the time she was in power, the end of the cold war and the very real threat of all out nuclear war and the right to buy allowing hard working families to own their own home amongst others as well as the undeniable massive social and employment problems.
Any strong leader will always have people for and against them which is of course fair comment. Unfortunately there's an awful lot of people who jump on the "I hate Maggie, she closed our mines and stole my school milk" bandwagon without putting any effort into understanding the facts and context of the time. The mines are a good example, Scargil did more to destroy the mining industry with his ego fuelled bid for power than Maggie ever did, something the Neil Kinnock mentions most times he's asked about it.
In the end history will judge the impact of Margaret Thatcher as a leader, but it's still too soon.
I don't recall saying she was hated by all. The apathetic majority and those that think well of her would be who? The working people north of Watford, those from the pit villages, or perhaps the rich and those who had/have more affluent lives.
I well remember the poll tax riots, yes those people on the news reports looked pretty apathetic if my long memory serves me well.
Soldato
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As oppose to the friends of yours that saw the Police waving wage slips? Tell me, were you in the pub when they relayed that 'fact'?
Whole areas of Stoke's housing were built for the miners and other sections of heavy industry. Having lived in Staffordshire in several areas all my life, I can say that although it may not be 100% accurate what Dimple is saying rings true. Generally, the miners I have spoken to were paid more than most other workers (quite a lot more in some cases), although their job in many ways warranted that due to conditions and elements of danger. Secondly they did stick together as a crowd. I have worked with many ex-miners and have ex-miners in my family and it does appear from what I have been told over the years that getting down the pit was far, far easier if you had family/friends down there already. Jobs in the pit were in demand because the wages were higher. Thats not to say it was a 100% closed shop, but you know how it goes......if there is a vacancy a member of the team will normally have a son, or a nephew or a close friend that needs a job. I saw the exact same thing in the pottery industry where I worked for a few years. Said member acts as a guarantor. Makes it very hard for outsiders to get a foot in the door, wouldn't you agree? Of course that is not to say it cannot happen, but it is harder.
I also know there were mining 'communities' in Stoke. I speak to a lot of old timers and they have wonderful stories to tell. Even the not so old timers can teach you a thing or two about your local area. From the people I have spoken to over the years, it does indeed appear true that the miners were suspicious of outsiders. Partly because their lives were often at risk and they needed to trust the man at their backs. I remember working at one chaps house and he said it was like being a soldier. Brothers in arms, as it were. He also mentioned that the new lads had to prove themselves worthy, as well as other tales about the jokes they used to play on each other. Really nice chap, who had no need to lie to me, but I suppose by the logic you present unless he hands me some kind of proof I must naturally disbelieve him. But when you have people tellling you the same kind of stories from all over the county, you do have to wonder if there is credit in it, no?
Oh, and the thing about the secret service and the Army being brought in and dressed as Police, it didn't happen did it? I mean, from your posts so far I can only conclude that there is a clear lack of evidence and it therefore must be untrue.
I also have not seen the part in Dimple's posts where he said all miners in the UK were greedy? He did, however, clarify that he was speaking from his experiences in Stoke only. Perhaps he should have been a little more clear, but I certainly have had no issues with understanding he was talking about his own experiences in Stoke only.
You seem to have a beef with miners in Nottinghamshire though, or at least that is what your posts imply. Would you care to elaborate, just so there are no misunderstandings?
Also, when you say it has not been forgotten that they capitulated, who are you talking about? You? Your family? Your friends? Exactly how many people as a percentage of Scotland's/England's/Wales' miners share that view? Can you speak for them all, because that is what you appear to be doing (?). Where is your evidence? I see non presented, so your point is therefore invalid (according to your argument stance at least). Or is it the case that is the opinion held by yorself and your circle of family and friends? Hearsay and pub talk maybe?
It is easy to pick holes in what someone is saying isn't it? It must be a very strange world you live in if you cannot accept/believe anything anyone says that is contrary to your own experiences without definitive proof in the form of x, y & z to validate it. Just because it differes from your experience, it makes it no less relevant, or true. Indeed your very opening response was to call Dimple's experiences garbage.
Just who do you think you are? Furthermore, what qualifies you to assess whether his experiences are true or not?
Cheers
Buff
And I thought it was "The Sun what won it". We had and still have a far right press in this country and you claim she was elected three times, hmm! wonder how that happened
You appear to have a very different view of the history I lived through or you're simply reading some Tory rag.
Soldato
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Hi there
I must admit I'm not a lover of Margaret Thatcher and I lived and worked (partially) through her rein as PM (1979-1990). She killed off many communities here in Scotland and introduced the dreaded Poll tax here a year before it was introduced in England which generated even more hatred towards her. Having said that she also granted the power to allow people to buy their council house which was a decision that allowed my parents to get on the property ladder!
Regardless whether you liked her or not - whether you agreed or disagreed with her policies and the decisions she made when she was in power surely you'd have to agree that it's a very sad (and perhaps misinformed) individual that rejoices in the death of another human being. Let's not forget she was also a mother and grandmother and my sympathies go out to her family at this sad time.
I must admit I'm not a lover of Margaret Thatcher and I lived and worked (partially) through her rein as PM (1979-1990). She killed off many communities here in Scotland and introduced the dreaded Poll tax here a year before it was introduced in England which generated even more hatred towards her. Having said that she also granted the power to allow people to buy their council house which was a decision that allowed my parents to get on the property ladder!
Regardless whether you liked her or not - whether you agreed or disagreed with her policies and the decisions she made when she was in power surely you'd have to agree that it's a very sad (and perhaps misinformed) individual that rejoices in the death of another human being. Let's not forget she was also a mother and grandmother and my sympathies go out to her family at this sad time.
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- Glenn Greenwald, Guardian.
Don't really have much to say, but I'll give my opinion now (if that's allowed moderators) and I'm actually not bothered how many agree or disagree, I just feel the need to get this off my chest (like breast reduction) after a drink
.First, can I say I didn't live through World War II, Slavery or many other things as many people on here didn't but we all have opinions on the people and what happened, so less of this rubbish of 'you didn't live through it', utter rubbish.
Thatcher, in my opinion, was a outspoken supporter of a murderous regime(s) and she relentlessly pursued a political ideological a gender which was ironically backed by state sponsored violence. She utterly ruined the working class. She wanted to remove the NHS (see a pattern here with the current Government) and adopt an American healthcare system iirc. Her attitude towards Europe and the EU is still a problem now, a petty jingoism towards Europe. Her use of the Police and secret Police in terms of enforcing her rule. Privatising industry, Poll tax, Hillsborough, Falklands, Supporting the Apartheid in South Africa, Supporting stop and search policies largly focused on young, black males ect, I'm sorry, but so much of this goes against my views I could never ever stand to agree with her politics or ideology.
I can not, ever, forgive her for what she did to the community I came from. She utterly destroyed the mining and industrial town I'm from in the North, broke it, taking away so much and offering so little in an alternative. I can not ever forgive her for her attitude that poor people are at fault for their poverty.
I have huge respect though for her for breaking the glass ceiling in terms of being the first female Prime Minister and actually, despite having a very different political view to myself, I admire people with convictions in their actions (that doesn't extend to properly terrible, abhorrent acts) but she had a belief and set out to do certain things, she did those things, I don't agree with those things but in a world of spineless politicians and petty point scoring and political parties that are so blurred on their individuality and ideology, that is something to almost admire.
As for people on their high horse about having to respect someone in death or show respect, not really, give over. I had no sense of respect for her when she was alive, yes I admire a few things about her and yes I feel for the family, the grandchildren losing a grandma type thing, but no, she utterly ruined the community I'm from and had a hugely negative effect on thousands of people, not to mention hundreds of friends and family. So no, I'm not going to suddenly develop a sense of respect for her now she's dead. My opinion on her has not changed at all now she's dead. In the same way I'm not actively celebrating her death.
So, TL
R - She ruined the community I'm from, she ruined the lives of hundreds of family and friends and was responsible for enforcing policies and an ideology I find abhorrent for the most part and still reverberates today, I won't be upset by her death, I'll be in a small way pleased, but I'm not going to run out a celebrate, I'm not going to be crass about her.Also; before ANYONE starts bitching about my political view point and mentions Labour in the same reply, go away, I'm not here to score politically but to offer an opinion on why some of us aren't all upset by her passing. I don't condone the behaviour of running in the street to celebrate but I do understand it, for she utterly destroyed communities in her actions against society.
If this isn't 100% coherent it's because I've enjoyed some wine
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This is I guess an open question to the many others with similar views.
Lets imagine that instead of closing the mines, Thatcher had instead left them alone - untouched - to carry on as they wished to.
What do you think would have happened? A genuine question - I don't fully know myself what I think would have happened.
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