Baroness Thatcher has died.

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mejinks said:
Newbiejim, why do you HAVE to be right? You have turned this thread into arguments about semantics, calling people liars and doing the same thing yourself? If you were in a pub trying the same thing you would have been headbutted and thrown out long ago. I'm trying to ind any value in your posts, but they reek of a child like attitude trying to stamp your feet.

I think the best course of action is to close this thread or involve adults who can carry a valid opinion in it. Thanks to you and your rabid friend, this has gone so far off topic you couldn't get a plane back to it.

I'm sorry if you were bullied in school and now have an inferiority complex and forums are the only place you can talk because nobody in a face to face situation would last more than 5 minutes without wanting to punch you, but please don't use ocuk as that place to seek psychiatric help.
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What a nasty aggressive person, I'm a child?.
 
newbiejim said:
You were correct m8, loads of words but no substance. But now tin miners made £800 so that's worth mentioning. :)
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Hmmm, its seems that misrepresenting someone's statement is ok though....there was plenty of substance to what I have stated, particularly in relation to public perception, profitability of the NCB, taxpayers liabilities and the historic NUM demands and how that related to and supported Dimples experience, particularly if Stoke was in one of the high paying regions of coal mining like Nottingham. If you wish to focus solely on the anecdotal evidence or misrepresent a statement made in order to clarify what independent evidence I tried to find (without success I am afraid, if I come across any I will supply it) that is fine, but don't claim objectivity and the high ground when at best you are doing the same as Dimple when expressing your opinion and if others criticism of you is correct (I haven't read the whole exchange so I am in no position to judge) doing it overtly aggressively. I have been nothing but respectful in discussion with you and would at least expect a modicum of that returned, but if you are going to go down the route of attacking the poster rather than discussing the points raised then I see no point in continuing as I am not interested in a tete a tete based on personality, besides you seem to have your hand full addressing such nonsense already. If I find any substantive evidence on 1980s average wages for miners then I will add it to the thread, in the meantime do not take the figures as authoritative as I admit they are anecdotal and based on the opinion of another and I cannot verify them.
 
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Biohazard said:
It is if you want the poor to get poorer and the rich to get richer.

That's what happened under Thatcher and all her proteges and impersonators ever since.

We can now bask in the glory of the 'United Kingdom' being one of the most unequal places to live in the industrialised world. The world we industrialised.
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+1

I think the UK is now number 24 out of number 27 for child poverty rates in western world, we lost 10 places since the general election that is the true thatcher/tory legacy, its disgusting
 
newbiejim said:
Something just occurred to me, you say in your post "something needed doing with the greedy miners" now did you mean just the Stoke miners?, because then you go on to say "she was the person to do it". Now as I recollect, she then took on not just the Stoke miners, which you must know too y?. In summary, I'm sure any fair minded person would agree that it would seem VERY strange that you would hope that she would deal with just the Stoke miners, hugely improbable I'm sure you agree.So we can infer that when you say "she was the person to do it" you did indeed mean all miners.
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No, I lived in my own little world and still do.
I'm 55 and never voted because I have no idea what goes on around me politically and that's why you never see me in threads having a go at the latest Government however I sometimes may give an experience of how something affected me.
If I talk about an experience it is what is happening in my little world so I had no ideas what was going on outside of Stoke.
I make my living by reading the EXACT words that are wrote on pages and I never read between the lines and make my own story up so you should do the same with me.

I now realise I did make a mistake in my first post, even though I said 'Stoke On Trent', 'We' and 'My Miner mates' I didn't say 'My Stoke Miner mates'. Any normal person would already work out that 'My Miner Mates' are nobody outside Stoke.
 
Mickie said:
I think it was great that she closed subsidized pits in the north then got nissan in, the jap company and subsidized them instead, so much sense she had..

Privatizing everything so people have less money in their pocket today, good idea thatcher, its good that companies can make a profit on public services, and whats wrong with putting profit before service anyway? Obviously ofgem haven't a clue.
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Why don't you have a look at how much Nissan has actually invested in the UK compared to the government grants they received?

You should see its a perfectly legitimate business proposal with a large net gain for the UK.

The sad thing about the miners was they were all paying into a union that had no interest in actually asking their members democratically whether they should take industrial action or not. Scargill just thought he was up against a woman and he couldn't be seen to have the embarrassment of backing down to her, especially after the NUC brought down the Heath government.

He called a strike with no vote and no mandate. He then forced those who didn't want to strike to not work through violence. The fact of the matter is the governments original proposal of a handful of pit closures and efficiency measures wasn't actually that bad, especially when you consider the pits that were originally proposed to be closed were pretty much empty. The intention was to see if we could bring our pits somewhere near the efficiency of other countries around us so we could at least be somewhere near competitive, and keep going.

The NUC made the bed that the miners had to lie in, and their greatest achievement was convincing the miners that what happened to them was all the governments fault.
 
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Castiel said:
Hmmm, its seems that misrepresenting someone's statement is ok though....there was plenty of substance to what I have stated, particularly in relation to public perception, profitability of the NCB, taxpayers liabilities and the historic NUM demands and how that related to and supported Dimples experience, particularly if Stoke was in one of the high paying regions of coal mining like Nottingham. If you wish to focus solely on the anecdotal evidence or misrepresent a statement made in order to clarify what independent evidence I tried to find (without success I am afraid, if I come across any I will supply it) that is fine, but don't claim objectivity and the high ground when at best you are doing the same as Dimple when expressing your opinion and if others criticism of you is correct (I haven't read the whole exchange so I am in no position to judge) doing it overtly aggressively. I have been nothing but respectful in discussion with you and would at least expect a modicum of that returned, but if you are going to go down the route of attacking the poster rather than discussing the points raised then I see no point in continuing as I am not interested in a tete a tete based on personality, besides you seem to have your hand full addressing such nonsense already. If I find any substantive evidence on 1980s average wages for miners then I will add it to the thread, in the meantime do not take the figures as authoritative as I admit they are anecdotal and based on the opinion of another and I cannot verify them.
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I am NOT doing the same as 'Dimple' . I feel I have been respectful with you while you shroud your unsolicited comments in apparent wisdom and resonability. The totality of your lengthy posts amount to pretty much nothing other than safe middle gound comments that cant be substantiated one way or another. A poster a few posts ago even mentioned head butting and punching, a pointed question, is that reasonable?, if not why is no one pointing accusatory fingers at him instead of failing to paint the miners as overpaid?
 
Dimple said:
No, I lived in my own little world and still do.
I'm 55 and never voted because I have no idea what goes on around me politically and that's why you never see me in threads having a go at the latest Government however I sometimes may give an experience of how something affected me.
If I talk about an experience it is what is happening in my little world so I had no ideas what was going on outside of Stoke.
I make my living by reading the EXACT words that are wrote on pages and I never read between the lines and make my own story up so you should do the same with me.

I now realise I did make a mistake in my first post, even though I said 'Stoke On Trent', 'We' and 'My Miner mates' I didn't say 'My Stoke Miner mates'. Any normal person would already work out that 'My Miner Mates' are nobody outside Stoke.
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I disagree,vehemently. My post, number 1269 adequately casts doubt on your regards towards miners per se. You also again advise to read words exactly, need I go any further?
 
MrMoonX said:
+1

I think the UK is now number 24 out of number 27 for child poverty rates in western world, we lost 10 places since the general election that is the true thatcher/tory legacy, its disgusting
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I'd like to see where you got that nugget of disinformation from. Its been steadily dropping since 2000. The crash may have caused a blip that we need to recover from, but I suppose thats the Torys fault is it? Anyway being poor these days mostly means you have to turn the heating down on the central heating in your double glazed house a bit, families on benefits with kids experience nothing like the same families endured in the 70's, 80's and even some of the 90's.

Try actually being poor 30 years ago with no central heating in a single glazed 2 up 2 down pit house, with an outside lav. Toasty.
 
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Biohazard said:
It is if you want the poor to get poorer and the rich to get richer.
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The rich always got richer - that's pretty much a golden rule throughout history. However under Mrs Thatcher the poor started getting poorer for the first time in a century, a trend that continues to this day.

I just think that on day 1 of Mrs Thatcher's rule, she said "Where there is discord, may we bring harmony". From that day on I saw more and more discord introduced to this country.
 
Von Smallhausen said:
I'm just wondering if this thread has run its course ?
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No. If you do what reason do you have to close it? or have you got an agenda?

Robbo said:
Grow up.

If people are going to continue spewing meaningless bile, then yes, I think it has.
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I think you need to get a grip. And what is meaningless to you may not be to others.

Oh and how old was you when she was around? school age? thought so.
 
deuse said:
I think you need to get a grip. And what is meaningless to you may not be to others.
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Get a grip? I'm not the one mocking a dead old woman.

deuse said:
Oh and how old was you when she was around? school age? thought so.
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No, though I don't see why this really matters - I'm well aware of her policies, and what she did or didn't do.

All I see from the likes of you are people who want to blame everyone else for their problems... there's a pattern emerging.
 
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