Baroness Thatcher has died.

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Well I'm back tracking.

Anyone who actually looks at the facts can clearly see that Thatchers policies made perfect sense - my earlier posts were obviously flippant and meant to be in jest for the most part, and betray a massive ignorance of any precise and thorough understanding of the underlying issues, and with clear/unfounded bias/influence from those whom understand even less.

And in all seriousness, the people partying in the street are clearly idiots - young, stupid, ignorant, naive people with mere conception at best of what exactly they are supposedly celebrating. Idiocy on an unprecedented scale. These people have no sense of gratitude and would probably proceed to do even less intelligent things if given half the chance. I don't condone any mindless action, or indeed any unthoroughly researched opinion. Spare me your tuppence and I'll spare you mine - let's have some facts, not anecdotes/spin.

Some of her detractors may argue that those ill informed youth (and as others have mentioned, children) celebrating her demise in public are little more than a product of her policies -- a society more informed by the desire for money and fame than anything else. Read: Their entire mindset is informed by nothing more than popular media and the aspirations of their peers.
 
Some of her detractors may argue that those ill informed youth (and as others have mentioned, children) celebrating her demise in public are little more than a product of her policies -- a society more informed by the desire for money and fame than anything else. Read: Their entire mindset is informed by nothing more than popular media and the aspirations of their peers.

Well at least they have aspirations. To strive for betterment is no bad thing. It's a shame they have no traditional, conservative moral values or a sense of personal responsibility / ability to think outside the mob mentality though.

The truth is that Thatcher is no different to any other politician - you can't please everybody, all of the time, and you have to make what you believe to be the morally correct albeit tough decisions. New Labour were truly shocking though. Contrary to Boris Johnson and those mistaking conviction as a virtue/strength, I much prefer the "grey suits" of today and actually think David Cameron is doing a great job at the moment, and slowly but surely the country is getting back on track despite the damage caused by Labour. Tuppence for tuppence.

Seriously though, it's hilarious - boo hoo I lost my job and the community here is devastated. Like you deserve to have a job in the first place! Here's an idea - instead of relying on the state for some handout of a job where they effectively use and have used the working classes as practically slave labour since the industrial revolution, how about actually using that thing housed inside your cranium and

a) think about what people might need
b) what skills or talent you'd be willing to develop
c) maybe become an entrepreneur
d) or erm, move away to somewhere good where there might actually be jobs and become part of a new community

Technological advances alone were making most industrial revolution inherited jobs in society obsolete due to automation long before Thatcher decided to bite the bullet and intervene. Face it, the lower classes have been an excess in supply of human resource for some time in society now, but the problem keeps getting worse because you keep breeding and providing more unnecessary Jonathon Ross watching monkey workers. The only solution is to face tough situations and evolve or die, no one is coming to the rescue, no one can bail everyone out all the time. It's simple, there is no conspiracy - simply contribute something of genuine value to society and be prepared to make hard sacrifices or be devalued by society. It really is that simple £35 p/h. Pure victim/herd mentality instead of standing up to be counted.
 
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Well I'm back tracking.

Anyone who actually looks at the facts can clearly see that Thatchers policies made perfect sense - my earlier posts were obviously flippant and meant to be in jest for the most part, and betray a massive ignorance of any precise and thorough understanding of the underlying issues, and with clear/unfounded bias/influence from those whom understand even less.
What utter fiction.

It makes perfect sense if people happened to agree with the ideological stance & view being profitable as the only worthwhile consideration.

Like most of your kin you completely ignore the additional benefits of subsidised industry (increased employment, reduce spend on benefits, increased demand in local economy, decreased poverty/crime, increased social cohesion, greater availability of the good in the local economy) while ignoring the negative side effects of only focusing on the profit motive (externality, decreased employment social cohesion, decreased demand).

It's easy to judge subsidised public industry negatively against standard private industry when they serve different purposes - as you ignore the wider social & economic impact.

And in all seriousness, the people partying in the street are clearly idiots - young, stupid, ignorant, naive people with mere conception at best of what exactly they are supposedly celebrating. Idiocy on an unprecedented scale. These people have no sense of gratitude and would probably proceed to do even less intelligent things if given half the chance. I don't condone any mindless action, or indeed any unthoroughly researched opinion. Spare me your tuppence and I'll spare you mine - let's have some facts, not anecdotes/spin.
Ironic, that you posted no facts in that - just your own bias subjective view & generalisation of a group you disagree with.
 
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I am not surprised that all the Tories attended when they can claim back £££


MPs can claim up to £3,750 in travel costs to pay tribute to Margaret Thatcher in parliament today - sparking warnings the bill could run into hundreds of thousands of pounds
 
I am not surprised that all the Tories attended when they can claim back £££


MPs can claim up to £3,750 in travel costs to pay tribute to Margaret Thatcher in parliament today - sparking warnings the bill could run into hundreds of thousands of pounds

I wish people wuld stop using easily debunked arguments like this. For a start the 'hundreds of thousands' is being worked out by assuming all MPs will be claiming and claiming the full amount, the reality is very few will travel back for it (it's not compulsory) and most will be in London today anyway.

Furthermore, MPs travel expenses are always paid for, whether it's to attend parliament today or go to the sandwich shop for lunch, it's not something they've just made up for today's event.
 
Originally Posted by estebanrey
I wish people wuld stop using easily debunked arguments like this. For a start the 'hundreds of thousands' is being worked out by assuming all MPs will be claiming and claiming the full amount, the reality is very few will travel back for it (it's not compulsory) and most will be in London today anyway.

Furthermore, MPs travel expenses are always paid for, whether it's to attend parliament today or go to the sandwich shop for lunch, it's not something they've just made up for today's event.




But that's not the point:rolleyes:

Why call MP's back so a lot of thatcher loving Tories snobs can
keep telling themselves how great she was to the rich?

And screwed everybody else
 
How? How can one person destroy community spirit?

With her ultra conservative, greedy, unemphatic I'm all right jack pull up the ladder attitude and politics!

''no such thing as society'' :rolleyes:

The woman was vile and not what civilized and evolved human-beings should be aspiring too as a species!
 
With her ultra conservative, greedy, unemphatic I'm all right jack pull up the ladder attitude and politics!

Even if she was, how did that make others do the same? Are we not free thinking people that could go "You know what, I don't actually feel like being selfish because some woman tells me to be". Are you so weak willed that a change of government will make you give up all your previously held values and start being selfish? Considering most western nations are pretty similar in attitudes does that mean Thatcher also managed to convince them too?

''no such thing as society'' :rolleyes:

I am sure we have been over this before...

The woman was vile and not what civilized and evolved human-beings should be aspiring too as a species!

So don't aspire to it? No one is forcing you to, this isn't some communist dictatorship after all!
 
If she was so vile then why did the public vote her back into power a second and third time?

If her policies were so bad then why did new labour not reverse them? Or the public vote new labour out for not reversing them?

If the country was so united before her first election then why was the previous winter dubbed the Winter of Discontent where a labour government, of all things, wasn't able to reach agreement with trade unions to stop widespread strikes, power cuts, rubbish left in the streets, etc. My childhood memories include sitting at home with my parents in a house lit by candles.

The country was on its knees. It needed someone strong to pull us out of the mire we were in. I agree that not all of her policies were right but we needed, and therefore voted for, someone to stand up and make a difference.
 
Yes

Keep going on about respect, why respect her now if you didn't when she's alive?

Was their really the level of racism from Thatcher this black guy is describing?

They have gone onto another topic now, thought thatcher would have been discussed further to be honest.

I wasn't aware of the racism side of the argument, was she really that public about being racist as it was indicated ?

Edit - Found this statement (although its from the Guardian) http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/dec/30/30-year-rule-thatcher-papers-released -

"But the Downing Street papers also disclose a shocking degree of personal racism in her own response to the Vietnamese boat people, initially resisting an informal UN request that Britain take 10,000 refugees on the grounds that there would be riots in the streets if they were given council housing ahead of "white citizens". She made clear to her cabinet colleagues that she had "less objection to refugees such as Rhodesians, Poles and Hungarians, since they could more easily be assimilated into British society".

Mrs Thatcher even bizarrely proposed to the Australian prime minister, Malcolm Fraser, that they jointly buy an Indonesian island to resettle all the boat people. This forerunner of Oliver Letwin's 2003 idea for an "asylum island" to take all of Britain's asylum seekers was only blocked when Singapore complained that it would set up a rival entrepreneurial city."

Looks like she was apposed to immigration years ago, but does that make her a racist ?
 
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If she was so vile then why did the public vote her back into power a second and third time?

iirc she garnered the same quantity of votes in all 3 elections, between 13 - 13.7M, so it was just the same people voting for the conservative government at the time, and had more to do with the collapse of support for any of the other parties rather than any swinging endorsement of Thatcher.

And remember, it was her own party that stabbed her in the back and got rid of her in the end, the same people now waxing lyrical about how wonderful she was.
 
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I am not surprised that all the Tories attended when they can claim back £££


MPs can claim up to £3,750 in travel costs to pay tribute to Margaret Thatcher in parliament today - sparking warnings the bill could run into hundreds of thousands of pounds

I wonder how much the police bill will be for supervision of all the 'parties' :/
 
Yes

Keep going on about respect, why respect her now if you didn't when she's alive?

Was their really the level of racism from Thatcher this black guy is describing?

Its not about respecting her, people can still hate her all they want. Its about respecting both the dead and respecting her family etc. Its common human decency not to dance on someones grave.
 
iirc she garnered the same quantity of votes in all 3 elections, between 13 - 13.7M, so it was just the same people voting for the conservative government at the time, and had more to do with the collapse of support for any of the other parties rather than any swinging endorsement of Thatcher.

And remember, it was her own party that stabbed her in the back and got rid of her in the end, the same people now waxing lyrical about how wonderful she was.

So in each of the three elections more people in the country thought she was better for them than the other options available. She wasn't a dictator, she was a democratically elected leader who was repeatedly voted in by the general public. Her own party removed her when they thought that another leader had more chance of winning a forth election than she did, largely due to the poll tax which was obviously very unpopular (but not hugely different to todays council tax).

I strongly disagree with many policies that recent labour and conservative/liberal governments have enacted but accept that the democratic majority voted for the parties who introduced them.
 
iirc she garnered the same quantity of votes in all 3 elections, between 13 - 13.7M, so it was just the same people voting for the conservative government at the time, and had more to do with the collapse of support for any of the other parties rather than any swinging endorsement of Thatcher.

And remember, it was her own party that stabbed her in the back and got rid of her in the end, the same people now waxing lyrical about how wonderful she was.

While what you say is true, it is probably worth adding the context that Tony blair never equalled thatchers best result, and the falloff in support over the three elections was much more dramatic, culminating in a win of 35% in 2005 (lower than the conservative vote in 2010 and acheiving a majority through a biased system).

Put in context, the information provided above looks a lot less damning.
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