are you answering yes to this?
If so I must have missed this because I didn't get this until the last episode
Battlestar Galactica (now containing quite minor spoilers)
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are you answering yes to this?
If so I must have missed this because I didn't get this until the last episode
Caporegime
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Well, we do not know they didnt make a report, but the assumption by the BSG guys was that eventually the cylons would notice a missing patrol...? My point is that eventually shouldnt even come into it, they would have radioed ahead? why not hide and follow the humans until the man fleet is nearer, without giving the game away?
Pretty handy but only because that is the way they are depicted, anything that requires an O2 source, has blood and needs physical controller units seems...absolutely crazy to even contemplate building when you can build drone units, see the way the US military is going...
Well, they left behind a guy who they suspected was a cylon, without any proof...and previously didnt they make a jump when under attack and have to leave part of the fleet behind?
I understand that starbuck means a lot to adama, my point was he didnt articulate the best reasons to keep searching for her, i.e she is their best pilot, pilot trainer and best sniper...When the president says, 'call off the search, this is an emotional thingy', wouldnt you reply, 'actually mrs she is our best person in these categories, and therefore arguably worth more than the value of x unskilled pilots lives' etc? i know i would....
they know from previous encounters that 8 cylon fighters wont stand up to anything against the BSG, why not follow them? why alert them to your own presence unecessarily until the main fleet is close?
Think of it this way, have you seen Sin City? When bruce willis finally gets out and goes to find his girl he realises he has made a mistake because he has led his enemy right to the doorstep...
If he'd gone the other way and not chased down the girl himself, then the bad guy would have been unlikely to ever randomly find the girl..
Applying this logic to the situation, obviously not knowing if earth is alive or dead, but is undiscovered, then surely heading towards earth is only leading the cylons closer? The Humans want to ensure the survival of the human race, the further they could keep the cylons from earth, the more chance earth has of surviving, right?
But we know from real life that governments are searching for ways to 'robotize' the front lines, its odd that computer people would seek to operate the opposide way and put squishy things on the front line,,, no?
Happy to told I am wrong, but I think regen for the fighters is explicitly mentioned by Sharon in captivity(?) The point of having an organic ship which can regen is that it learns by dieing and will be better next time it fights. A flying computer could not learn by being destroyed. I think SCAR had died several times which is why it was so angry
We don't know what orders they were under, what their general tactics are, what their goals are. You're assuming they would follow some sort of earth based human based protocol.
The Running Man said:
When the US military can create a computer controlled plane that can fly as well as a human controlled plane, then I'll concede the point. Until then, I can see compelling reasons for using a "living" brain type system.
The Running Man said:
They left Doral behind, because they suspected he was a Cylon, yes. The burden of proof regarding who is and isn't a Cylon is quite a key feature of the series as a whole, as one might expect.
I don't recall their ever leaving ships behind intentionally without discussing explicitly why they had to resort to that course of action.
The Running Man said:
But those are not his reasons. His reasons are that he loves her like a daughter and he would stay as long as it took to find her. The entire point of that episode is that it's absolutely not a valid military reason to stay, but he doesn't give a frak, and he's prepared to overrule the president on this. The interplay of people's motives, responsibilities and obligations in this show is considerable and ongoing.
It's a shame they didn't make a show entirely about Cain on the Pegasus... It sounds like you'd have found that one more plausible, never mind that it would have been utterly dull.
The Running Man said:
Firstly, the logic and universe of BSG is just a little bit different from that of Sin City, but either way.
They don't know what is on earth. They don't know if there are people there. It is a world that has been prophesied about in religious texts. It is their only hope in the midst of the Cylon attack, and you are suggesting that they shouldn't go there? If they don't go there, then they have nothing to aim for or strive for.
The Running Man said:
Maybe there's reasons that these things work. As I said - when the military can create a robot that can fly a fighter jet as well as a human, then I'll concede the point.
I'm just watching the episodes where they are going to attack the resurrection ship for the second time round, so I'll tell you if I see it. My memory is that the fighters do get resurrected, but I could be wrong.
Yep: Battlestar Wiki confirms it.
Yep: Battlestar Wiki confirms it.
thats wrong mate you dont need to be in a gravity well (ie on a planet) to experiance g force. it has exactly the same effect in space as it does on earth. you just start from 1g on earth and 0g in space
That crossed my mind as well. I suppose it stems from the fact that we erroneously refer to the forces in question as G forces, when they aren't really anything to do with gravity, save that we use the force of gravity as a supposedly understandable quantity of force.
So called G forces are just the forces involved in acceleration. When you talk of a car experiencing forces of 2G during cornering, it's nothing to do with gravity and everything to do with the centripetal forces that are generated. The 2G just refers to the force being twice that of the force of gravity at the surface of the earth, or whatever, though it isn't gravity that's actually operating at that point. Likewise a plane that pulls out of a dive and hits 6G or so, or a Viper flipping end over end at speeds of hundreds of miles an hour.
As you say, gravity could be of relevance when you are moving vertically, but even then the only difference is that you start the count from a different number.
Caporegime
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But as smart as that sounds, arent the ships, from both humans and cylons, designed to be used in and out of atmosphere, otherwise, why would they need winglets at all?
Again, if these robots can build centurions, and replicant human things then surely a bit of fighter AI makes more sense than creating a bespoke living tissue 'thing' that requires actual flight controls, requires oxygen, suffers from G forces (as ive already said) etc.
it seemed like a convenient plot prop as opposed to being forward thinking imo.
I dont think logic changes between time and place tbh.
The objective of BSG is this - maintain the human race. As such there are some actions and outcomes that could affect this:
Omne scenario is to find 'earth'
if Earth can defend itself, then great, the earthlings dont need BSG turning up on their doorstep followed by the cylons, that cannot end well. if they can defend themselves, BSG can add nothing to them anyway as BSG can barely defend themselves, hence they are running.
if BSG turns up to earth and it is behind in development and cannot defend itself, well BSG has just led the cylons to the last bation of real humanity, and have therefore virtually ensured the descruction of the human race.
So in no way does BSG finding earth actually help to continue humanity, as it would have continued if they had NOT found earth. true life for the BSG people might not continue, but hey thats the way it goes sometimes. Is that game theory, im not sure, but basically the only choice that BSg have is to go the opposite way to earth and hope that earth is never discovered and that they (BSG) can find somewhere to live/hide/suvive other than the earth.
Im assuming that the robots learn.
they had no more than a few days ago watched a load of alien ships of their own get mown down by the BSG defences, therefore sending only 8 fighters or so against a cruiser like BSG is a completely retarded move. if you play RTS games you'd understand that feeding your opponent your resources piece by piece is a really really bad tactic to follow. if the cylons were that dumb to never learn well, how dumb does that make their opponents?!
Again, if these robots can build centurions, and replicant human things then surely a bit of fighter AI makes more sense than creating a bespoke living tissue 'thing' that requires actual flight controls, requires oxygen, suffers from G forces (as ive already said) etc.
it seemed like a convenient plot prop as opposed to being forward thinking imo.
I dont think logic changes between time and place tbh.
The objective of BSG is this - maintain the human race. As such there are some actions and outcomes that could affect this:
Omne scenario is to find 'earth'
if Earth can defend itself, then great, the earthlings dont need BSG turning up on their doorstep followed by the cylons, that cannot end well. if they can defend themselves, BSG can add nothing to them anyway as BSG can barely defend themselves, hence they are running.
if BSG turns up to earth and it is behind in development and cannot defend itself, well BSG has just led the cylons to the last bation of real humanity, and have therefore virtually ensured the descruction of the human race.
So in no way does BSG finding earth actually help to continue humanity, as it would have continued if they had NOT found earth. true life for the BSG people might not continue, but hey thats the way it goes sometimes. Is that game theory, im not sure, but basically the only choice that BSg have is to go the opposite way to earth and hope that earth is never discovered and that they (BSG) can find somewhere to live/hide/suvive other than the earth.
Im assuming that the robots learn.
they had no more than a few days ago watched a load of alien ships of their own get mown down by the BSG defences, therefore sending only 8 fighters or so against a cruiser like BSG is a completely retarded move. if you play RTS games you'd understand that feeding your opponent your resources piece by piece is a really really bad tactic to follow. if the cylons were that dumb to never learn well, how dumb does that make their opponents?!
I'm not going to argue about this any more. If you're going to complain about organic spaceships in a show about replicant robots then I'm not sure there's anything I can say to convince you that it's one of the best sci-fi shows ever made.
Soldato
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Indeed, i am with the grammar nazi on this, BSG was and is a very enjoyable, great arcing show, but some wonderful set pieces and season finales (end of s1 is still a superb kicker) it was writing where you wouldn't be surpised if they had 'lost' at any stage.
Absolutely. You can pick holes in any sci-fi show - most have bigger holes than BSG's as well
As commented above you can pick holes in the logic of pretty much any Sci-Fi and Fantasy. Take Lord of the Rings, why didn't Gandalf go the shire, pick up Frodo on Gwaihir and simply fly to Mount Doom at night when Sauron and the Nasgul were asleep. Destroy the ring and be home in time for tea and crumpets?
Would have saved about 11 hours of the films and 800 pages of the books.
I would argue that the story and pathos is what sets BSG apart, as it does for LOTR. In addition to the Sci-Fi, BSG asks many questions about the human condition, such as what it is to be mortal, the role of politicians and the military, how their decisions can influence the lives of many people. It also asks what is right in war and what is not.
OK so it is not quite Hamlet, but I think if you are worrying too much about the logic of the Sci-Fi then you will miss out on all of the above which, for me, was what the programme was really about.
Comments on the search for Earth in the spoiler box.
The point about the search for Earth in the new BSG is that Adama is simply using at the start as a device to control people and given them hope. He does not really believe in Earth and does not for a long long time. The drive for the search really comes from Roslin and is not in any way concerned with military thoughts. She believed that this is what she was chosen to do from the scrolls of Pythia. Indeed, I do not think Adama really believed any of the Earth stuff until well after Kobol.
In the original 70/80s series it was very different, IIRC, the Lorne Greene Adama was looking for a home and also a potentially military ally, he hoped that Earth would be advanced enough to help fight the cylons. In the event, he found Earth in the 80s and subsquently carried on in space. This was under the auspice that Earth would be destroyed as they (we) did not have the technology to fight the cylons.
I personally think they were offended by the 80s hair and clothes and carried on looking for something better.
In the original 70/80s series it was very different, IIRC, the Lorne Greene Adama was looking for a home and also a potentially military ally, he hoped that Earth would be advanced enough to help fight the cylons. In the event, he found Earth in the 80s and subsquently carried on in space. This was under the auspice that Earth would be destroyed as they (we) did not have the technology to fight the cylons.
I personally think they were offended by the 80s hair and clothes and carried on looking for something better.
So they use organic tech in their technology? That doesn't mean their brain/cpu is in any way affected by g-forces does it? Also the fact humans/cyclons seem to have artifical gravity would point to the fact that they'd be able to mitigate these forces so that they're negligable anyhow.
An organic brain is also faaar more powerful than any cpu we've yet devised.
As for finding Earth... well Earth is a myth as far as any of the characters are concerned. If it did exist it would stand to reason they'd be equally if not more advanced than the humans in the fleet. If it wasn't for the virus in the ships they'd have probably beaten off the cyclon attack. BSG is an old ship but you'll see what the more 'modern' battlestars are capable of when not crippled.
As for sending a raiding party - I feel silly for having to even point this out...
sas in africa in ww2 hit and run strikes - germans lost a lot of resources. Death by a thousand cuts. In your rts games you never used fast units to pick off slow moving targets?
Cyclons have all the resources in the worl... galaxy. Humans have very finite amounts of fuel, ammo and pilots. Each of those attaks costs the humans faar more than the cylo... ah forget it - this is too obvious you gotta be trolling!
This is an interesting point. For flying a Jet Fighter/Viper/Raider then I agree this is the case. But for number crunching (at least for us and Galactica) we cannot compete with computers, indeed Galactica used a computer to calculate jumps.
But cyclon baseships do not!
That because they were robots themselves and connected to the ship via the water pools in the control room. They already had all the processing power they need in their heads and because they were cylons could give over their brains to this calculation at a wim. Humans can't do that (yet)
Agreed a brain and a cpu are totally different things. But if you could manipulate a brain and 'wire' it to do binary calcs then it would be pretty speedy!
Soldato
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