BBC document on Covid (Health Service) and Racism

[dowie]

I've found this doing my own web searches - Tuskegee Syphilis Study.

I was totally ignorant to this, and understand why black people would have issues with the state mandated programs over the pond.

Why would black people in this country be hesitant to believe our NHS that the vaccine is what it says it is?

They wouldn't necessarily, in fact plenty wouldn't have even heard of it... and AFAIK it is British Bangladeshis who are the most hesitant here. And why are British Indians not so hesitant... etc.. seems pretty dubious that the hesitancy could be attributed to that incident in the states affecting African Americans.

I mean should Jewish people or gay people or communists be wary of the vaccines in the UK today because the Nazis conducted experiments in concentration camps in Europe in WW2?

What you going for here ?
Your own graph shows that its pretty much 1:1 death ratio for whites but a 266% increase in deaths for blacks.

Which is a naive/irrelevant observation as you're looking at the % in the population rather than the % of people in custody. Black people commit more crimes, there will be more of them in custody as a % of the population in the first place. Now if you were to show there were a disproportionate number of deaths in custody relative to the % make up of the population actually getting put into custody then that might be more relevant... and better still perhaps look at what they're being arrested for, how old they are etc... you might well find, for example, that they've got a lower chance of dying in custody if looking at race alone... perhaps because older, vulnerable smackheads and alcoholics in their 40s or 50s tend to be white whereas young black moped thieves in their 20s are less vulnerable/unlikely to die etc..

 

[Deleted User 298457]

They wouldn't necessarily, in fact plenty wouldn't have even heard of it... and AFAIK it is British Bangladeshis who are the most hesitant here. And why are British Indians not so hesitant... etc.. seems pretty dubious that the hesitancy could be attributed to that incident in the states affecting African Americans.

I mean should Jewish people or gay people or communists be wary of the vaccines in the UK today because the Nazis conducted experiments in concentration camps in Europe in WW2?

Godwins law for about the 10th time in this thread .

 

[dowie]

Godwins law for about the 10th time in this thread .

Yes, but actually relevant to the topic being discussed!

 

[Tony Edwards]

I've found this doing my own web searches - Tuskegee Syphilis Study.

I was totally ignorant to this, and understand why black people would have issues with the state mandated programs over the pond.

Why would black people in this country be hesitant to believe our NHS that the vaccine is what it says it is?

There is also the forced sterilisation of blacks while in custody right up to I think 2015 or there abouts.

There are many reasons for the 'dont trust whitey' phrase.

Jees, you're suggesting black people are like a hive mind? Listen to what you've just typed, individuals have massively different histories and ancestries.

Edit: Is this the (or one of?) reason highlighted earlier in the thread that BAME people are hesitant to take the COVID-19 vaccines then? Or is there something else less informed people like myself are not aware of?

What you have think about is its not the hive mind of blacks as such. Its the perception that white people are all the same that is the problem. All through history the white man has proven they cant be trusted.

 

[mmj_uk]

I've found this doing my own web searches - Tuskegee Syphilis Study.

I was totally ignorant to this, and understand why black people would have issues with the state mandated programs over the pond.

Why would black people in this country be hesitant to believe our NHS that the vaccine is what it says it is?

Because media corporations like the BBC push the message on an almost daily basis that the UK is an institutionally racist country and groups like BLM (on the back something that happened in the US) have spent 9-10mths enforcing the idea?

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

All through history the white man has proven they cant be trusted.

Wow. Straight up dictionary definition racism from you Tony.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Wow. Straight up dictionary definition racism from you Tony.

Why am I not surprised you dont really understand the word or even term? Infact even history.

 

[200sols]

All through history the white man has proven they cant be trusted.

Wow. You've lost the plot.

 

[potatolord]

There are many reasons for the 'dont trust whitey' phrase... Its the perception that white people are all the same that is the problem.

Isn't that a racist assumption- "they're all the same"? Would you see it as worthwhile challenging that?

That perception shouldn't be accepted (in my opinion)- not just on moral grounds, but rather because it is leading to deaths where vaccines are not accepted.

To be fair, I think that's just poor wording on your part, and not an accusation...

Notice you edited your post since I took that quotation from it.

 

[Fubsy]

There is also the forced sterilisation of blacks while in custody right up to I think 2015 or there abouts.

In the UK?

There are many reasons for the 'dont trust whitey' phrase.
What you have think about is its not the hive mind of blacks as such. Its the perception that white people are all the same that is the problem. All through history the white man has proven they cant be trusted.

If I thought about it like that I would be a straight up racist in dictionary definition terms, so no, I'll politely refuse to think of it like that.

That perception of white people is wrong in the majority of cases. The majority of white people are not racists, mean no harm to people of colour, or act in an untrustworthy manner towards them. To have formed, and use that viewpoint as a starting point of interactions with or base views on institutions that are historically white is approaching it at a fundamentally bigoted train of thought.

The minority (people and institutions) that are racist do need to be singled out, challenged and reformed, but not in a scorched earth "don't trust whitey" manner that seems to be the flavour of the year - see my protestations in the "be less white" thread for my views on that.

Edit: appreciate that yes you may have ben clumsy on the wording, having edited your post.

 

[Zatoichi.uK]

Why am I not surprised you dont really understand the word or even term? Infact even history.

Racism:
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group.

You've literally just demonstrated the above and frankly should be reported for it.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Notice you edited your post since I took that quotation from it.

I editted my post 42 minutes before your post? So a couple of minutes after I posted it.

I havent worded it badly its just people arent bothering to read it properly.

In the UK?

No not the Uk, but to be fair to the 'perception' the USA is a white mans country despite us stealing it from the native americans in the first place.

If I thought about it like that I would be a straight up racist in dictionary definition terms, so no, I'll politely refuse to think of it like that.

That perception of white people is wrong in the majority of cases. The majority of white people are not racists, mean no harm to people of colour, or act in an untrustworthy manner towards them. To have formed, and use that viewpoint as a starting point of interactions with or base views on institutions that are historically white is approaching it at a fundamentally bigoted train of thought.

The minority (people and institutions) that are racist do need to be singled out, challenged and institutions reformed, but not in a scorched earth "don't trust whitey" manner that seems to be the flavour of the year - see my protestations in the "be less white" thread for my views on that.

The perception of it relating to all white people is wrong yes but people can only form their perception on what they know or have been told. Look at this thread for examples.

Its a bit like being scared of spiders in the UK. There is no reason whats so ever to be afraid of natural British isles spiders, but go to Australia and you better be afraid of them all just incase.

And no the 'Dont trust whitey' is nothing like 'be less white'.

 

[Efour]

Isn't that white man cant be trusted alotted to red Indians on European settlers/traders...
Swapping land for beads and whiskey etc.

Just a thought.

 

[Fubsy]

Racism:
Prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular racial or ethnic group.

You've literally just demonstrated the above and frankly should be reported for it.

I think Tony is only explaining why some people of colour can demonstrate racist views, he's not actually pushing those views himself.

 

[Tony Edwards]

I think Tony is only explaining why some people of colour can demonstrate racist views, he's not actually pushing those views himself.

Its like no one bothered to read or take this bit in

Its the perception that white people are all the same that is the problem.

and jumped straight to

All through history the white man has proven they cant be trusted.

 

[Fubsy]

The perception of it relating to all white people is wrong yes but people can only form their perception on what they know or have been told. Look at this thread for examples.

If it's wrong it should be called out for what it is. There shouldn't be any "buts".

Its a bit like being scared of spiders in the UK. There is no reason whats so ever to be afraid of natural British isles spiders, but go to Australia and you better be afraid of them all just incase.

You're using innate behaviour to protect against something that is potentially dangerous as an argument to support your explanation of "don't trust whitey". I can see where you are coming from, but think it's unhelpful to see it this way.

It leads us back to othering people based on appearance or group membership, it's the path that ultimately leads to genocides if left unchecked. Being irrationally scared of a spider isn't as damaging or dangerous as mistrust between races. Humans are able to overcome these fears with willing, and as long as they go in eyes open can deal with any dangers. Expanding on your analogy, maybe a constructive way of dealing with this is to learn from history, make sure the checks and balances are in place to prevent bad stuff happening (which with the vaccine is readily available thanks to trials), and then accepting and championing the things that do go right in the world between races. Focusing on the bad stuff and then applying that to all interactions is heartbreakingly bleak for the future.

And no the 'Dont trust whitey' is nothing like 'be less white'.

One is based from experience, the other is expecting the same thing to happen again unless it's changed; coming back to your notion that "All through history the white man has proven they cant be trusted." and applying those negative qualities to all current living white people. I don't think that's going to be a healthy way to move race relations forward.

Edit: It seems that the perception of the "be less white" activity is that white people see that as them collectively being blamed or even labelled as racists.

 

[silvagti]

Its like no one bothered to read or take this bit in and jumped straight to

The problem is you stated that there was a perception that all white people are the same. Then proceeded to actually state that all white people are untrustworthy.

"Its the perception that white people are all the same that is the problem. All through history the white man has proven they cant be trusted."

If you can't see the issue with what you've said and why it's racist then that's the problem here. I'd discuss it futher but you're just trolling at this point IMO. Time to hit the ignore button on Mr Edwards I think.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Just when I thought you had got it.

If it's wrong it should be called out for what it is. There shouldn't be any "buts".

Of course its wrong and horribly missguided. At the same time though there is a big difference between a race not trusting another one because of the actions of their past and a race that hates the other ones just for being not them.

The problem is you stated that there was a perception that all white people are the same. Then proceeded to actually state that all white people are untrustworthy.

"Its the perception that white people are all the same that is the problem. All through history the white man has proven they cant be trusted."

If you can't see the issue with what you've said and why it's racist then that's the problem here. I'd discuss it futher but you're just trolling at this point IMO.

AND WE ARE NOT ALL THE ******* SAME!!!!!!!!!!! SO THE PERCEPTION IS WRONG AND IT IS A PROBLEM. THIS IS NOT THE THOUGHTS OF ALL THOSE THAT ARE NOT WHITE.

You cant even read a post correctly HTF do you expect to discuss it further?

 

[Fubsy]

Just when I thought you had got it.Of course its wrong and horribly missguided. At the same time though there is a big difference between a race not trusting another one because of the actions of their past and a race that hates the other ones just for being not them.

Yes there is a difference, however they are BOTH irrational.

Stop trying to justify racism, even if it's in the guise of grievance.

Hate, breeds hate and all that.

 

[Tony Edwards]

Yes there is a difference, however they are BOTH irrational.

Stop trying to justify racism, even if it's in the guise of grievance.

Hate, breeds hate and all that.

OF COURSE THEY ARE BOTH IRRATIONAL. Stop trying to imply Im trying to justify racism. CHRIST.